New Aircraft

[+Geezer 3,569]

Crawford: Thanks for the shot.

 

One reason new aircraft take so long, is the extensive research and development necessary.  Thought you guys might enjoy reading some of our correspondence:

VonS:

Have now test flown the latest iteration of the Nieu. 17 c.1 and it flies well, also looks great. I also made some tweaks and created a separate DUX variant for the 17 c.1, slightly lower ceiling and stiffer control input/reaction on that one (attached below).

Geezer:

Your thorough attention to detail is commendable. I love it!

Looks like the DUX N17 should be a separate release?  Along those lines, what are your thoughts concerning Lewis gun armed N17s, as they were not the production standard but were a depot/field mod, primarily by the British. 

I dug out my definitive reference - Early Aircraft Armament (Woodman) - and it paints a rather complex picture about French and British aircraft armament. 

When war began, the French did not produce/use either the Vickers or Lewis gun and vainly attempted to use their Hotchkiss gun for aircraft use, but failed as it was too heavy and gas-operated.  Because of its light weight, Britain and France then preferred the Lewis for aircraft use, and ignored the fact it's gas operation was not suitable for synchronization; they wasted months trying to develop a practical system.  The most practical Lewis gear was developed by Sergent-Mecanicien Alkan in early 1916, but it suffered from a low rate of fire resulting from synchronizing engine rpm with a gas-operated gun.  The British subsequently developed several synchronizer systems for the Vickers, all of which had minor flaws but were used operationally as nothing better was available.  In mid-1917, the Constaninesco gear was introduced and was so successful it continued in use by the RAF until the introduction of monoplanes in the 1930s; it supplemented but never replaced the other gears at the front in WW1.

Sergent-Mecanicien Alkan, cooperating with Ingenieur du Maritime Hamy, developed a copy of the Fokker gear and it became the standard French synchronizer for rotary engines.  Marc Birkigt simultaneously developed a different gear for inline engines, sometimes called the "SPAD gear."  The Alkan-Hamy synchronizer was standardized as the Systeme de Synchroization pour Vickers Type 1 (moteurs rotatifs) and was offset slightly starboard of center line because of the configuration of the cam follower, which transferred mechanical pulses from the spinning rotary engine.

Eventually, France had to place large orders with British and American factories for Vickers and Lewis guns, resulting in shortages as the factories were already working at max capacity.  Due to these shortages, it was not unusual for French, and sometimes British, aircraft to be delivered without armament.  The two air forces then played "catch up" by installing armament at depot level, and sometimes at squadron level.  This resulted in the many different installations on rotary-powered aircraft, primarily Nieuports and Sopwiths.  There were seldom enough Vickers guns or Alkan synchronizers to equip all rotary powered aircraft built by France.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Geezer

[+Geezer 3,569]

More...

France obtained many Vickers guns from Britain, but most of France's guns were built by Colt or Marlin-Rockwell in the US.

French Ministry of Munitions records show France had received 696 Lewis guns from Britain by December of 1916, 3,650 guns in 1917, and 3,300 in 1918. As this was inadequate for wartime expansion, large orders for Lewis guns were placed with Savage Arms in the US.  The Savage Arms logo, an American Indian, was the inspiration for the Lafayette Escadrille squadron insignia. 

French factories were already working at capacity, so the French firm of Regis Darne, a cottage industry manufacturer of sporting rifles, was persuaded to produce Lewis guns - by 1916, they were producing five guns per week.  The Darne version featured a wooden sheath around the gun barrel and gas actuation tube.  Darne, profiting from others' mistakes, designed an inexpensive gas-operated gun suitable for synchronization, but the war ended before the new gun entered service. 

The US firm of Marlin also produced a gas-operated gun suitable for synchronization - Marlin guns were entering service when the war ended.  Developed from the pre-war Colt Potato Digger gun, it was an excellent design, but the new Browning .30 gun was even better so the Marlin was withdrawn from post-war service in favor of the Browning.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Geezer

[Crawford 570]

Thank you sir! This is a photo of the Nieuport-17 Replica. This aircraft was restored to the 100th anniversary of the Russian Air Force in 2012.

http://vikond65.livejournal.com/2605.html

 

 

[Wrench 9,792]

man, I just LOVE reading the historical stuff!!  

you all are doing a great job!

[jeanba 1,920]

21 hours ago, Geezer said:

Eventually, France had to place large orders with British and American factories for Vickers and Lewis guns, resulting in shortages as the factories were already working at max capacity.  Due to these shortages, it was not unusual for French, and sometimes British, aircraft to be delivered without armament.  The two air forces then played "catch up" by installing armament at depot level, and sometimes at squadron level.  This resulted in the many different installations on rotary-powered aircraft, primarily Nieuports and Sopwiths.  There were seldom enough Vickers guns or Alkan synchronizers to equip all rotary powered aircraft built by France.

It must be added that machine gun shortage was the main reason why French planes had only 1 Machine Gun until the Spad 13

Edited January 8, 2018 by jeanba

[+Geezer 3,569]

1 hour ago, jeanba said:

It must be added that machine gun shortage was the main reason why French planes had only 1 Machine Gun until the Spad 13

A good observation!  For much of the war the Allies experienced a chronic shortage of machine guns, particularly light weight aircraft guns.  This problem gradually went away during 1917 with new factories coming online - and the introduction of the SPAD 13. 

On the subject of synchronizers, there are all kinds of internet references that state N17s were built with Vickers guns mounted on the center line.  Only problem with that, is the French Ministry of Munitions never authorized production of any rotary engine synchonizer other than the Alkan-Hamy!  Or, if it did, the records have not survived 100 years of turmoil.

Again, I suspect the confusion arises from the British inability to develop a reliable synchronizer until mid-1917!  Per Woodman's Early Aircraft Armament, the Brits employed the following systems, only one of which was equal to the Fokker/Alkan-Hamy gears:

Vickers-Challenger: Bristol Scout, Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter, BE12, RE8

Scarff-Dybovsky: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter, Sopwith Pup

Sopwith-Kauper: Sopwith aircraft (particularly Camel), despite flaws was closest the Brits came to a standardized gear until Constantinesco gear was introduced in 1917

Ross: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter

ARISAD: Nieuport 20, early RE8

Armstrong-Whitworth: FK8

Constantinesco: When the Brits finally got their act together - a year after everyone else - they did it right.  Beginning with DH4 in Spring of 1917, the excellent "CC" gear was to have replaced all earlier gears, but it proved impossible to modify all British aircraft in the real world.

The British duplication of effort is remarkable, particularly when you consider that most of the gears were not as good as the German/French gears.  The best the Brits could field before mid-1917 was 2,750 Sopwith-Kauper gears, despite a tendency for the guns to "run away" and shoot up the propeller - they also had a high rate of mechanical failure due to excessive wear.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Geezer

[+Geezer 3,569]

Found more info about aircraft guns and synchronizers. 

Rate of fire for the ground version of the Vickers gun was 450-550 rounds per minute (rpm).  Minor adjustments to rpm could be made by tightening or loosening the fusee spring.  Early British synchronizers (particularly the Ross gear) slowed the rpm to 350-400 rpm, and the situation was not improved until mid-1917 with the introduction of the Constantinesco gear.  By war's end, Britain had manufactured 71,355 Vickers guns (both ground and air) while Colt had built 4,000 Vickers guns for aircraft use.  Britain delivered 10,544 Vickers aircraft guns to France by December 1918.

Birmingham Small Arms (UK) and Savage Arms Company (US) shipped at least 6,842 Lewis guns to France.  Meanwhile, domestic French production ramped up during the war: Regis Darne delivering 3,266 Lewis guns and Milde delivering 1,100 Lewis guns.  France used at least four different variants of the basic Lewis design, all differences being minor detail changes.

Throughout the entire war, it proved difficult to balance gun production with airframe production.  This probably accounts for the confusing variation in gun/synchronizer installations.  For example, the Windsock data file for the Breguet 14 clearly shows delivered aircraft mounting overwing Lewis guns, instead of the standard Vickers gun.  There simply were not enough aircraft Vickers guns to meet the demand, a situation that worsened in 1917 with the Allied introduction of two-gun fighters.

 

[+Geezer 3,569]

Progress shot of French aircraft so far...

 

[Verdun 21]

Looks awesome! :D

[+whiteknight06604 934]

I hope i'm able to get a working computer by the time these are finished. this is stellar work!

[+Coupi 4,377]

Fan...tastic !!!

[+Geezer 3,569]

5 hours ago, whiteknight06604 said:

I hope i'm able to get a working computer by the time these are finished. this is stellar work!

Thanks.  VonS and I are committed to raising the bar for First Eagles, but developing all new stuff is a slow process.  We figure doing all the stuff we would like will take 1-2 years, so you have plenty of time to get a new rig! 

[+Geezer 3,569]

Progress shots of the Belgian N23 in development.

[don246 65]

Geezer the teezer man these are so good I must have them, wonderful work what I like is there are no square bits the wheels are round and what should be round is round. Just take as long as you need but bare in mind I am 73 and well you know what I mean. Thanks for all you do.

[+Geezer 3,569]

8 minutes ago, don246 said:

but bare in mind I am 73 and well you know what I mean.

LOL, I turn 72 in March.

Yes, these take a long time but there is method to the madness.  First, it takes a lot of plain, old fashioned hard work to produce this stuff.  Second, this forum is full of discussions about getting various bits and bobs to work because they were developed at different times to varying standards.  VonS and I want to release a comprehensive package of stuff that is tweaked and adjusted to work in harmony as a system.  That will take a while...

 

[+Geezer 3,569]

 VonS' new FM for Lewis gun-armed Nieuport 17s is very authentic.  The extra drag of the guns slowed them down so they were slower than the Pfalz D3.  Sure enough, ingame some Lewis-armed N17s could not catch D3s that did not want to play. 

[+Geezer 3,569]

Detailing the forward deck of the N17/23 series.  The Alkan-Hamy synchronizer gear was a developed copy of the Fokker gear.  When combat was imminent, the pilot pulled on the ring-handle to engage the synchronizer, but in normal flight the gear was not engaged.  This reduced mechanical failure due to excessive wear.

The ammo belt was fed up to the gun on the right side, through a wooden chute with hinged sheet metal cover.  The empty cloth ammo belt was fed out the gun's left side and then down inside the fuselage, where it was wound around a spring loaded drum.  Because the cloth ammo belt (used by all versions of the Maxim gun) would often flex during high-G manuevers, the belts often jammed the guns during combat.  The Germans developed the disintegrating metal link in 1916 to solve the problem, and the other major powers soon copied the German metal link concept.  The later Nieuport installation for metal links extended the chute over the side of the fuselage so the expended links could fall clear.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Geezer

[+Crusader 2,082]

Your weapon models and info are far better than the armament artwork in the Osprey "Duel" series on aerial duels

[+Geezer 3,569]

Long ago, I used to do that kind of stuff professionally.  I was a concept artist/designer in LA before I went back into aircraft engineering, ultimately retiring as a field service engineer for the Global Hawk, and also training college interns to make computer game models.  Below is a marketing painting from 1979, done the old fashioned way - geometry, pencil, and paint brush.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Geezer

[JacksonM 74]

FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

P.S. Not beatiful but WONDERFUL!!!

Edited January 18, 2018 by JacksonM

[JacksonM 74]

How long have you been doing this work?

[+Geezer 3,569]

2 hours ago, JacksonM said:

How long have you been doing this work?

When I retired four years ago, I decided that making digital aircraft would be a good retirement hobby.

[JacksonM 74]

And what about this painting?

[Stratos 3,188]

You did what profesionally???

BTW What is that AAA?

[jeanba 1,920]

You have a wonderfull experience !!!