Australia forest fires

[+Gepard 11,300]

It very sad to see how big parts of Australia become victim of mega size forest fires. Its very sad.

But always if i see the pictures i ask myself, wheter the firefighters do their job properly.

I remember a day during my military duty time in East Germany. It happend during a shooting training in summer. It was hot and dry. One burst of tracer ammo missed the target and caused a fire. In astonishingly short time the fire became bigger and bigger and went out of control. Me and my comrades were orderd to fight the fire at all costs, with all what we had. And to be honest, we had not very much, only our small military spades, which we called Muckerlöffel or UB-1  which stand ironically for Universalbagger (universal excavator). We shoveling the hole day and we had no chance against the fire. The forest was lost. That all guys thought. No chance.

But then, we heared tank engines and short afterwards 3 pionier tanks T-55TK arrived the area. Each tank was equipped with a dozer plate. The tankers said to us: "Nice try, but now look how the profis make it the right way."

The drove back some hundred meters and started to make a path (glade) mid in the forest. It needed some time, but when they finished  in the forest was a deep scar of pure soil, no tree, no plant, a scar as wide as a german Autobahn.

Then the boss of the tankers came to us and asked who of us had match packages. Of course all of us had matches, because lighters were rare in East Germany. Then the officers stuck his finger in his mouth,  checked from which direction the wind came, and then he gave us the order enemyward ( word by wort translation of "Feindwärts", what means the direction, where the enemy is, comarable with starboard and backbord on ships) of the paved glad to light small fires. We should make two steps, then light the gras, make two steps, light the gras and so on and so on. We started to burn down the forest, but in a controlled and slow way. Our "counter fire" had to crawl against the wind, so that it not was able to become big and fast. When the big, hot and fast forets fire reached the "defence line", our small fire had "eaten" all trees and plants, so that the big fire had no food anymore and broke down in a astonishingly short time. Mid next day the fire was out.

We sacrificed a smaller part of forest to save the much bigger part. We fought fire with fire. And we won.

 

In this summer in Germany was also a big forest fire which the firefighters were unable to handle. The smoke was to smell 500 km away. After some days, when the civil authorities acknoledged, that they were unable to stop the fire they asked the Bundeswehr for help. 2 or 3 days later the Bundeswehr pionier tanks started to fight the forest fire in the same way like in my military time. After 3 days the forest fire was defeated.

 

Perhaps the Aussis should do it in the same way. Fight fire with fire.

 

Edit. I forgot to post a picture of the east german pionier tanks.

T-55TK. Its a very helpfull beast.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Gepard

[Wrench 9,848]

As a Californian, who's watched various parts of his state burn for, well pretty much all my life, I can sympathize with the Aussies. Look at what happened here all across the state in the last 2 years. In fact, some of our people are headed to Oz right now to assist.

Counter fires (or "backfires" as they're called) are a standard procedure to create firebreaks and like you said, to eat the fuel on the battle line.

All we can do at this point, is pray for rain (and if it's like SoCal here, subsquent flooding!!!) to slow it down.

I wish them all the best of luck, and hope they stay safe

[+1977Frenchie 1,038]

The problem with the Aussie fire is it's speed. A friend of mine is a forest firefighter in the Province of Quebec and volounteered to go there. He said that in a blink of an eye the fire made giant leaps, even over their safe zones.

So the rain will be their salvation as for now because they can hardly fight the beast right now.

My thoughts and prayers are for all the souls there!

[Sky High 166]

I have read reports that the environmental lobby in Australia have brought about so many regulations to protect trees and vegetation that the deployment of firebreaks is effectively impossible. One fireman interviewed said that in 2002 he cleared the trees around his house and was fined $50,000 dollars plus the same in costs. He said that there was a large fire in 2009 and his was the only house in his town not burned down. Cause and effect. But one cannot talk to these people.

[+Erik 1,812]

I've been looking at photos and videos all day and it's heartbreaking to see the wildlife being impacted and the devastation to the vegetation. Sadly we also know what comes after the fires burn out, rain. Rain that causes flooding and land slides so this isn't over not by a long shot. Those Aussies are a hardy bunch but I pray for each and every one of them. This is going to impact people directly and indirectly for years to come.

 

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

11 hours ago, Sky High said:

I have read reports that the environmental lobby in Australia have brought about so many regulations to protect trees and vegetation that the deployment of firebreaks is effectively impossible. One fireman interviewed said that in 2002 he cleared the trees around his house and was fined $50,000 dollars plus the same in costs. He said that there was a large fire in 2009 and his was the only house in his town not burned down. Cause and effect. But one cannot talk to these people.

This is an categorically untrue. Utter bullshit is also accurate, if a shade inflammatory. This is a narrative that came directly from a clown of a politician who's renowned for spurious, partisan claims and threatening to shoot Johnny Depp's dogs, and is currently being fostered by an arch-conservative lobby group here in Oz called the IPA as a means of countering the massive outrage at the PM's abysmal, tone deaf handling of the situation, because when the country is facing the worst fire season in it's history, why not play politics? /s.  It's an attempt to place the blame at the feet of the Greens party for being the impediment to carrying out back burning and other fire prevention methods generally put into effect before the fire season starts. There's one small but critical problem with this: The states have the responsibility of implementing these fire prevention plans, and the Greens hold no power in any of the states-- there are no Green state premiers or state governments in ruling coalitions with the Greens, nor do they have the ability to prevent these policies from being enacted. Whilst responsibility for this is in the hands of the state governments (the Federal government can allocate emergency funding/resources to assist),  a couple of states have found themselves distinctly underprepared (ie, NSW & Qld). So straight off the bat, this narrative doesn't even pass the smell test. It is true that in parts of NSW, several of back burnings were prevented, but this was due to significant budget cuts to the Country Fire Service by the NSW state government (something in the order of AUD $73 million in total) that slowed down it's fire prevention implementation to a crawl. The shortfall in manning, and funding caused delays in the fire prevention plans being enacted, and when the CFS finally found the resources to actually implement these back burnings, conditions were too dangerous for them to go forward with them safely. So while a stack were taken care of, a whole bunch weren't. There's a relatively small window to undertake back burning before Summer, and it's completion was missed thanks to unwise 'bureaucratic realignment' immediately before the fire season began.

The anger being levelled at the PM, on the other hand, is well deserved. The government was warned repeatedly that the fire conditions were already catastrophic in November, that fuel loads were excessive, that weather conditions would exacerbate the situation, that the CFS was undermanned and underfunded, but these warnings were ignored. Additional assistance, including offers from New Zealand and Canada were initially rebuffed by the PM in early December with the PM stating that the CFS everything they needed and 'want' to be there, despite former leaders of the CFS/RFS unequivocally rejecting this (one of their big complaints was the local air support was entirely insufficient in the face of the threat)-- oh, and this guy. Just over a month after the fires began devastating NSW and QLD, the PM went on holiday to Hawaii, but told his office not to disclose his whereabouts, but he was busted on the beach and took photos with, and was heckled by Australian tourists (the tourists were asked not to share these photos because of the 'bad optics', which guaranteed they eventually were). He resisted calls for his return for more than a week as the damage from the fires passed 2 million hectare mark (we're currently at the 6 million ha/16 million acre mark), then eventually after his return, he was heckled out of multiple devastated towns. His deputy was already on the nose by labelling critics of the government's handling of the fire response as "inner-city raving lunatics" and a few ideological warriors have tried to join in , which only angered more people. And this is before his office released a video about his government's response to the emergency which turned out to be a party political ad, or how the 'donate' links in his bushfire addresses he was sharing on social media, were for his party, and not any of the many fire fighting causes that are currently raising money for fire fighters.

In short, Australians are livid at the PM's inept response to a national emergency. It's like he's made every possible wrong choice one could make in the situation and shown a complete lack of leadership and good judgement. It's not a petty left/right thing (although some in the media are trying to frame it as such and are being hounded down from all quarters), but an abandoning your post during an emergency thing, especially when the guy who's our PM was very vocal in his criticism of the former Victorian police commissioner daring to have dinner in the Melbourne CBD during the Black Saturday fires.

Oh, and while all this was happening, the NSW emergency services minister decided to go on holiday to Europe whilst everything was on fire, and the defence minister buggered off on holiday to Bali even while the proposal to activate ADF reservists was being readied. Seriously, you can't make this shit up!

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

I hate to say this but we are going to see more and more Wildfires and devastation to forested areas as global air temperatures rise. As the bush and forests become more dry and arid it only takes a small spark to set a blaze going. !!!!

We humans are responsible for churning out thousands of tons of carbon based gasses and releasing it into the atmosphere, and we are starting to pay the price for our ignorance. !!!

In Britain last year (2019) we witnessed the highest summer temperatures ever recorded for June, July and August. I thought that Global Warming was just something that effected other people but at the height of summer last year my plastic patio table which resides on my patio outside melted due to the extreme heat. It has been outside in the same place for several years and it's never done that before. !!!

My Cat usually spend most summers outside on the back garden relaxing and snoozing, but last year he was clearly in distress due to the extreme heat and was panting a lot and his breathing was extremely rapid and laboured. I had to take him in the house until early evening when the heat began to dissipate. 

Clearly something is changing and it's not good.!!!

[+Erik 1,812]

 

This was one of the more impactful  photos I've seen over the past few days. It is solemn and quiet with a still action background giving way to the soft flutter of the proud Australian Flag. Says it all without saying a word. Thought I'd share.

 

9 hours ago, SayWhatt said:

This is an categorically untrue ...

I feel for you Aussies because this wasn't only avoidable in the mass scale like it is today but everyone knew the fire load was high months in advance and did nothing. Our lovely politicians once told the residents of a certain state they needed to go out in the forest and rake up the dead brush and leaves to prevent the fires. Keep in mind 80% of that forest is National Forest belonging to the Federal Government. It's total absurdity in all forms. 

5 hours ago, RUSTYMORLEY said:

I hate to say this ...

Climate change has a name, it is real, it is here today, and it is making a devastating impact already. Imagine when our blue ball get another degree or two hotter and we can't sustain the food supply. Shits about to get real folks.

 

[+Erik 1,812]

5 minutes ago, Sky High said:

 

You're the one playing politics. The Prime Minister is not to blame for this. In fact, if all the politicians went on holidays for much longer, we'd all be better off. The allegations parallel the experiences in California, where excess afforestation is leading to more uncontrollable fires. If there are more breaks in forests, one will inevitably have more controllable fires. That, I believe is the point of the original post-break the continuity and the fires cannot spread beyond these breaks. 

I'd remind you that insulting the opinions of another with vulgarisms only goes to display the weakness of your own case, not that of the person you insult. And you have the nerve to accuse me of being 'inflammatory'. But, it's easier to throw a tantrum and blame the government than to analyse the policies that might really be causing these events. 

Let's be clear. The PM is not to blame for the fire, the emergency funding that could have lessened the damage, poor management, or going on holiday? Afforestation is the planting of new trees that were not harvested or lost. California is reforesting and will be for hundreds of years before it can ever think of afforestation. California is a good example how fires jump fire breaks often as if they're non-existent. The only real way to help prevent forest fires is to remove the fuel in a continuous cycle of controlled burns before the fuel is ignited by weather or accidentally. I don't see what was said as a personal attack so much that it was an attack of the policy. I can see how you might feel personally attacked but I'm almost certain it wasn't meant that way. I'll differ to the author for further clarification.

 

[Sky High 166]

[Erik, I thought twice about that post and actually deleted it before you quoted it. Then I followed with what's below. I apologise to all concerned and acknowledge that feelings naturally run high when personally involved].

 

If global warming is really happening, it's inevitable everyone will blame everyone else for the consequences, but what it would actually be is the equivalent of a gigantic chemical reaction which conceivably has been slowly developing since the onset of the industrial revolution. It is very difficult to stop such a reaction right in the middle of it. Things are probably going to have to just play out. As there is such a diversity of opinion on these events, it doesn't appear that anyone is capable of discovering what, if anything, might be done. More than likely, the law of unseen consequences implies that whatever is done will have negative consequences in unexpected and alternative directions. In the very unlikely case that somebody discovers a workable soultion to reverse global warming, it will present the hazard of being over-implemented and taking us to an equally catastrophic global cooling scenario, because there are no precedents whatsoever to guide us. The human race is discovering that we are not gods and have far less control over our environment than we thought. Those recent past few centuries of technological progress that have brought us to our present point might not have come without a price. The past century and a half of population increase might simply have been an unsustainable historical bubble, which is about to burst very spectacularly. The consequences are so horrific, there's no point in thinking about them.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Sky High

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

Building houses in the middle of a forest is a little bit absurd, especially if your house is made of wood.!!!!

Quite obviously if there is a large scale forest fire and your wooden house is right in the middle of a blazing forest you will probably see your home and all your possessions go up in flames. !!!

Then we get people saying why has this happenned.!!!!

We need to be more careful where we build homes and avoid building settlements in high risk areas.!!

The other concern is that we are turning the planet into a concrete jungle and occupying all the green spaces, leaving no room for nature and wild animals which form part of the ecosystem. 

Once the planet's ecosystem goes , we go with it.!!!

[+Erik 1,812]

3 hours ago, Sky High said:

If global warming is really happening, it's inevitable ...

Global warming is not inevitable as in the future, it is here today in the here and now. We aren't helpless, that's what the climate deniers want everyone to be. They keep people uninformed, misinformed, paralyzed in dilemma, and ultimately helpless; all so they can continue to make money off of dirty carbon polluting energy. There will come a day when we as humans will understand that survival of our species depends on change. When this all comes close enough to home that it affects our daughters and sons, we'll be wind farming fools almost overnight. Humans are the only species so selfish and depraved to not comprehend a threat until it's cutting off their oxygen and staring them in the face. I pray for us all.

[Sky High 166]

1 hour ago, Erik said:

Global warming is not inevitable as in the future, it is here today in the here and now. We aren't helpless, that's what the climate deniers want everyone to be. They keep people uninformed, misinformed, paralyzed in dilemma, and ultimately helpless; all so they can continue to make money off of dirty carbon polluting energy. There will come a day when we as humans will understand that survival of our species depends on change. When this all comes close enough to home that it affects our daughters and sons, we'll be wind farming fools almost overnight. Humans are the only species so selfish and depraved to not comprehend a threat until it's cutting off their oxygen and staring them in the face. I pray for us all.

 

That use of my quote is a complete misrepresentation of what I said. If you read the entire sentence, it is clear that my use of the word 'inevitable' referred to the blame-game with respect to the phenomenon, not the phenomenon itself. 

[+Erik 1,812]

I understood what you said. The use of the dot dot dot stands to say that I interrupted your thought and you had more to say on the subject. Everyone can read clearly what you said they only need to scroll up and read it. I in no way was trying to misrepresent anything. I did however want to squash the notion that we are helpless and nip it in the bud. That was my reason for dot dot dotting your earlier reply.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Whoops, sorry Sky High, that frustration wasn't directed at you but the that specific sentiment which is being bandied around here, despite it being thoroughly, thoroughly debunked. I cannot emphasise enough that it's simply not true and is only being propagated by those who have a political/ideological axe to grind, like the former deputy PM, hence my linking to him, and the other 200 or so links I added to back up my statements. And before anyone suggests I'm impartial or hold some kind of pro-greens bias, I haven't been interested in them for almost a decade now (whenever it was Bob Brown stepped down, like, 2011/12), quite the opposite, in fact. Their current starting line up gives me the shits. As a party, they tend to do more to damage and undermine themselves, despite stand out individual performances by some of their MPs

10 hours ago, Erik said:

Let's be clear. The PM is not to blame for the fire, the emergency funding that could have lessened the damage, poor management, or going on holiday?

See, we're going to have to differ here. I never said the PM was responsible for the fires, just that his response has been abysmal and tone deaf-- and this is a common consensus across the public, media and social media landscape here (not that I pay attention to the last one). He is renowned for being a pro-coal/anti-climate change proponent. He once brought a lump of coal in to parliament to taunt the opposition and profess his dedication to it. He's known for not taking threats to the environment seriously (I mean, he appointed a guy to the Environment portfolio who is an self-avowed 'anti-greenie' and young Earth creationist who believes the Earth is less than 12000 years old), I mean, it's the brand he's cultivated for himself. He nailed his colours to the mast a long ago on the subject. Nevertheless, dire warnings were given. The CFS/RFS made multiple attempts from August through December to get a meeting with the PM to discuss how thoroughly under prepared they were for this upcoming fire season and release state and federal funding to acquire more fire fighting platforms before it was too late, but he blew them off every time. He left to go on holiday weeks after the fires began, despite being extremely critical of the Victorian Police Commissioner for not being at her post during the Black Saturday fires. The government has shown more interest in 'trimming the fat' from public sector department, including cutting significant funds from emergency response services, to create a budget surplus few outside his party are interested in, and trying to pass a religious discrimination bill (which took up the bulk of his energies in Nov/Dec), that again, few outside his party want, than taking the fire threat seriously. But the thing that's really stuck in the public's craw was the fact that he, the PM of this country, decided to go on holiday when he should have been here at his post during a national emergency.  Also, as I said previously, the PM's very clumsy, every-wrong-choice-possible response since begrudgingly coming home has not helped matters. But that is why people are angry here.

Speaking of BS, so far my two 'favourite' conspiracies I've been reading about in non-Australian forums/news sites, etc, is that a whole bunch of people have been running around, starting these fires. To the best of my knowledge only 2 or 3 people have been arrested for deliberately starting fires (One in NSW, one in Tassie and possibly one in Victoria), and some kids started a fire in Qld. Later when the forensics crews have a chance to do their thing, we'll know more. The other conspiracy (and this one is fantastic!) is that these fires are being caused by volcanoes and lava flows. I mean, the last volcanic eruptions on the mainland or Tassie are measures in the tens of thousands to millions of years ago, but sure. 'Volcanoes'. :eyeroll:

[+Erik 1,812]

No need to differ with me. I was asking a question because I wanted to know what blame was getting shifted and to whom. I wasn't making a statement because I've got no knowledge to base one on. Seems like a few people sucking off the people's tit got caught sleeping on the job and if the PM can't own his part and take responsibility for it then he's a worthless wanker anyway and needs to go.

[+Gunrunner 314]

If only the Australians had raked the forests, as they do in Finland.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

My bad, Erik. I misread your question as a statement, even though I quoted you, which is a touch embarrassing.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Jesus, my grammar has been atrocious, too! lol.

[Skyviper 1,101]

This image was posted on Reddit

 

Someone else linked another report which is the reference for the above report. In case you're into reading such reports: http://www.climateinstitute.org.au/verve/_resources/fullreportbushfire.pdf

I didn't read it all. However it's a report published in September 2007 that, as you see in the image above, observed patterns and projected the situation they're dealing with now to happen between 2020-2050. 

 

Quote

A study conducted in 2005 examined the potential impacts of climate change on fire-weather at 17 sites in southeast Australia. It found that the number of ‘very high’ and ‘extreme’ fire danger days could increase by 4-25% by 2020 and 15-70% by 2050

Quote

By performing a seasonal analysis, an estimate of changes in the timing of fire seasons can be made. The greatest changes in the median FFDI are seen in the season of highest fire danger, generally summer (DJF). A large change is also seen in the season prior to the peak season as well. Generally, this change is larger than that for the season immediately following the peak. The ‘off season’ (usually winter (JJA)) tends to have the smallest increase.Taken together, these results suggest that fire seasons will start earlier and end slightly later, while being generally more intense throughout their length. This effect is most pronounced by 2050, although it should be apparent by 2020.

 

[+Erik 1,812]

Look at that stat for 2067 ... 100-300 increased days of extreme fire danger. That's almost an entire early cycle. If we don't clean up the oceans and get this carbon back in the ground we're in for a Vegemite valley root from mother nature herself. 

[+Gepard 11,300]

Is carbondioxyd CO² really that "big" problem? Its a problem, of course, but ...

To say it clearly CO² is a fertiliser for plants. Without CO² no plant can survive. Without plants we cant survive. As more CO² as better plants can grow up.

And who can really say, that the climate change is caused by CO².

Where i live, in the middle of Germany we have very thick layers of sand. This sand came with the iceage from Skandinavia to Germany. 10.000 years ago we had an ice glacier which was more than 100m thick. In a relativly short time the ice melts away and formed the landscape we have here in north and central Germany. The climate change came very fast. In less than 30 years the temperature climbed by 6°. And surely it does not climbed, because our ancestors made to much Mammoth BBQ.

Yes, there is an increase in temperature. And it is man made. One example. Not far away from me the airport Leipzig-Halle is situated. As all airports it has a meteorological station. And this station exist since the 1920th. And if you look on the temperatures you will clearly see, that it became hotter on the airport.

But what you cant see is the reason, why it became hotter.

In the 1920th till 1950th the airport had only grass runways. In the 60th one runway and some taxiways made by concrete were built. Concrete is a heat reflector. When the sun is shining the temperature climbs much faster than over gras areas.

In the 1990th, till today, the airport was completly rebuilt. Very big areas are covered now by concrete. Of course it is now hotter there as in the time before.

Our big towns, our big streets, parking areas, industrial areas and so on, are all mady by concrete or similar materials. Of course they are hotter than in the natural landscape. The town grew up, became bigger and bigger. Meteorological stations, which 20 or 50 years ago were situated on meadow areas are now mid in cities.

How is it possible to compare the datas?

 

My problem with the "Greta movement" is, that they have the strong believe, that they are 100% right. They believe to be infallible .

And sorry guys, but such "thinking" i know from the bad old times. At the time, when here a party was ruling, wich believed to be infallible. They had a song "Die Partei, die Partei, die hat immer recht!" (The party, the party is always right!") and always, if i see and hear Greta and her followers this old damned song come up in my mind. I dont like it.

 

Yes we have a climate change. But we cant stop it. We must adapt our society. Darwin said "survival of the fittes", not "survival of the strongest".

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

On 1/7/2020 at 4:49 PM, Erik said:

Look at that stat for 2067 ... 100-300 increased days of extreme fire danger. That's almost an entire early cycle. If we don't clean up the oceans and get this carbon back in the ground we're in for a Vegemite valley root from mother nature herself. 

 

I think we will all be long gone by then................The human race is Fu#ked.!!!!!!!

[+mue 715]

@Gepard you sound like the typical climate change sceptic . All of your climate myths are already debunked. e.g. here: https://skepticalscience.com/

11 hours ago, Gepard said:

Is carbondioxyd CO² really that "big" problem? Its a problem, of course, but ...

To say it clearly CO² is a fertiliser for plants. Without CO² no plant can survive. Without plants we cant survive. As more CO² as better plants can grow up.

And who can really say, that the climate change is caused by CO².

Maybe the climate experts? 97% of climate experts agree humans are causing global warming. Source: https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm and https://skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-co2-enhanced-greenhouse-effect.htm

11 hours ago, Gepard said:

Where i live, in the middle of Germany we have very thick layers of sand. This sand came with the iceage from Skandinavia to Germany. 10.000 years ago we had an ice glacier which was more than 100m thick. In a relativly short time the ice melts away and formed the landscape we have here in north and central Germany. The climate change came very fast. In less than 30 years the temperature climbed by 6°. And surely it does not climbed, because our ancestors made to much Mammoth BBQ.

https://skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm

 

11 hours ago, Gepard said:

But what you cant see is the reason, why it became hotter.

In the 1920th till 1950th the airport had only grass runways. In the 60th one runway and some taxiways made by concrete were built. Concrete is a heat reflector. When the sun is shining the temperature climbs much faster than over gras areas.

In the 1990th, till today, the airport was completly rebuilt. Very big areas are covered now by concrete. Of course it is now hotter there as in the time before.

Our big towns, our big streets, parking areas, industrial areas and so on, are all mady by concrete or similar materials. Of course they are hotter than in the natural landscape. The town grew up, became bigger and bigger. Meteorological stations, which 20 or 50 years ago were situated on meadow areas are now mid in cities.

How is it possible to compare the datas?

https://skepticalscience.com/surface-temperature-measurements.htm

 

11 hours ago, Gepard said:

My problem with the "Greta movement" is, that they have the strong believe, that they are 100% right. They believe to be infallible .

They believe they are right, because they are backed up by most climate experts and scientist.

 

11 hours ago, Gepard said:

Yes we have a climate change. But we cant stop it. We must adapt our society. Darwin said "survival of the fittes", not "survival of the strongest".

https://skepticalscience.com/mitigation-cheaper-than-adaptation.htm

Edited January 9, 2020 by mue
added additional link

[+Gunrunner 314]

I don't want to spoil it, but we're already FUBAR... barring a miracle, the ball is already rolling and we won't be able to stop it before it irremediably destroys ecosystems, some species that were on the verge are already dead men walking.

We have long passed the tipping point, it's not about avoiding damage anymore, it's about mitigation strategies and how quickly we can get back to "normal" without reaching the point of no return.

That's where I hate the little Swedish shit, she doesn't listen to scientists, she doesn't understand the science, she is still under the childish impression that if only adults were willing, everything would be miraculously solved and she wouldn't have to do a thing when reaching adulthood... For most things we are already in what was considered the worst case scenario decades ago, just because science keeps updating the predictions and some of our worse fears thankfully didn't realise doesn't mean we're not fucked already and that the current situation, even taking radical measures right now, won't take generations to "fix". Worse, at the point we're at, any radical solution might end up making the problem even worse, so not doing anything might be the lesser evil.

This isn't a simple, almost single-factor problem like the "ozone layer hole" that can be fixed in a couple of decades, this is an extremely complex, multi-factor, self-feeding problem.

Worse, not even taking just the climate into account, the fact that we have put education on the backburner, plus the economic problems, real or perceived, and the bleating of idiots about their holy books, their sovereignty, their way of life, their guns, their cars, their "freedom" mean that any quick solution that will, necessarily, impact economic circumstances and way of lives will be either stopped or reverted thanks to the rise of cynical populist shitbags who only have the perspective of having power for a few years rather than the long term benefits for their countries and fellow citizens.