Venting and Ranting

[aube 9]

or make it available only to people that are known Modders,

 

Or hell, even just ONE 'volunteer' terrain maker who can whip up a sample terrain that makes use of all the features that anyone who wants can use as a reference

[+ST0RM 145]

Hey, look at that. Another week down without a patch. But on the bright side, nothing new broken.

[the test pilot 5]

Right now, i really wish TK could read this thread.

 

Just to let him know that if he keeps going like this, he'll see his userbase fade away quite soon.

[+Major Lee 18]

What a sad future for SF series... I was with SFP1 at the start (before WallyWorld release), but grew disillusioned long ago. I had hopes that game play would at least match EAW 1.4, but that never really happened. In EAW, you would at least get different missions occuring at the same time (at least some of the time). This added greatly to the immersion factor. Granted, SF does send a neat force package out, but that is still less than EAW. The lack of proper AI behavior for WWII heavy and medium bombers really killed SF for me. Seeing twin and four engine bombers go flitting away like individual drunken ballerinas after one firing pass was just sad. I have never had a huge passion for late gen jets; early jets (gen 1 and 2) are cool for me, but I really love the WWII prop stuff. How tough would it be for TW to release their P51 and Spits for DLC?

 

As for the terrain, I found out early on the joys of working with the TE... Some expanded parameters and the basic terrain could be much better, but the new terrain engine, well, I'm just speechless over SFNA's "islands"... Now you must have MAX and be a skilled 3D guy just to make a terrain? Whatever... How much would it cost to fix the TE bug of not drawing the invisible mountains that rise above a solid overcast? I guess that is not worth it. For the record, I don't own a tablet and won't be anytime in the foreseeable future, so buying an SF mobile app isn't going to happen here. Hell, I haven't even bought SF2 because I held off installing Windows7. (I recently installed Wi7 on a new HDD)

 

So, do I buy SF2 now? I guess I might get SF2 WOE, but I would probably just try to add WWII stuff and be dissappointed. Anyone know a good WWII ETO flight sim? (replies of EAW will result in a very ugly release of eels... ) Anyway, SF has lots of good features, but the growing distance between TK and a group that has loyally been supporting his efforts is a bit discouraging.

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

You could try IL2 with the DBW mod, pretty much an all is everything modded IL2:

 

http://www.sas1946.c...d1af28f712e0d50&

 

Craig

Edited May 25, 2012 by fallenphoenix1986

[eraser_tr 29]

Anyway we need to plan a contingency (i.e breaking in to TW oficces in Austin, TX, to steal the source code) in case TK gives up on SF series in the future.

 

 

Streakeagle's thoughtful thread 'Competition for SF series' over at Third Wire got me wondering about what to (possibly) jump to if the end is nigh.

.......

 

Any thoughts on what to try next?

 

 

I too have to agree with Diego.

 

I've been a very vocal opponent of the way the TW series has gone, but yet still purchased the releases in the hopes something would have gotten better. That ended for me with SF:NA. I did not purchase it and I seriously doubt I will until some serious changes are made. I'm sick of hearing how poor he is and how it's too difficult to add new things that the 3rd party modders seem to figure out in hours.

 

Over the past 6 months, my time in SF2 has been rather short. It no longer brings much interest as without the mods, it's dull and solitary. MP would bring so much life to the sim.

 

TK does not give two shakes about what we think here. I think it's time for me to spend my time & $$ elsewhere.

 

 

As it stands right now I want him to patch SF2:NA to fix the last few bugs, then I will be happy. I just wish TK was more open on what he is thinking so we can maybe all put the panic switch down or stop the speculation. Some answers would be nice. We might be all out in left field and don't know it. But without answers from him, here is where we are.

 

 

Even if this proves to be the end of the series as we know it, the community will run with it for years to come. Look at examples such as The Babylon 5 Project or Wing Commander Darkest Dawn, both mods using Freespace SCP, but a game that's been around 13 years no less.

 

I mentioned something over at Sim-Outhouse a week or so ago. Over there, there is a small community still dedicated to CFS3, another moddable flight sim with serious issues, waiting for something new to satisfy their needs. And here we are almost in the same boat, watching SF2 slowly die. Like diego, I'm tired of TK's same excuses. He's far too timid to move ahead in a rapidly advancing market. While overall I'm quite happy, especially now with the mission editor and campaign editor to make use of the huge plane set, the limitations are sinking in.

 

I haven't played DCS, as I wasn't very fond of LOMAC, but I have doubts about it's ability to fit our needs.

 

I think we should plan and make our own contingency for the next generation. We've got the talent. The tools and technology are out there. Lets get together with the SOH CFS3 people to make a new, moddable combat survey sim that gives us the realism we crave with the accessibility we're getting now.

 

A quick rundown:

-easy to add planes, weapons, ground objects

-global terrain with modern quality

-flight model that handles early prop planes up through 5th gen jets

-easy to use systems while still achieving realistic performance

-dynamic campaign

-polish

 

Who else is interested in making it happen? Collaborate online, we can crowd source the money for necessary tools that we don't have or can't get freely.

[+SkateZilla 49]

DCS and LoMAC are not the same animal,

 

DCS World, once fully deployed and out of Beta, will have 3rd party Modules (Jets) being released faster than FSX Did. every module will be pretty much Study Sim Level of Detail.

Edited May 25, 2012 by SkateZilla

[+hgbn 91]

I just wish TK settles on a final patch level soon. So we modders have something stable to work with without worrying about the next patch ruining all our work once again. I think the last couple of years have been especially hard, mainly because of the race to upgrade previous mods to the latest level and staring all over again a month or two later. breaking stuff which always have worked.. IF it ain't broke why fix it???

[+SkateZilla 49]

I just wish TK settles on a final patch level soon. So we modders have something stable to work with without worrying about the next patch ruining all our work once again. I think the last couple of years have been especially hard, mainly because of the race to upgrade previous mods to the latest level and staring all over again a month or two later. breaking stuff which always have worked.. IF it ain't broke why fix it???

 

every patch disables or hard code's parameters that were normally mod-able, which is whats perterbing a lot of people.

 

and most of the locking seems to have been done because:

 

A. The game engine wasnt designed to or capable of running the parameters without heavy modification (which causes issues)

B. Too many people with laptops had issues with it even on low settings.

 

 

The fact that TW is going "Mobile" is no surprise to me, as they've been catering to Laptop and Low end users since SFP1.

[JediMaster 451]

While I have high hopes for the new DCS model as exemplified by the MiG-21 release, I also am skeptical if only because ED is notoriously tight-lipped about their plans. It doesn't help that when they DO finally say something, it only comes out right 50% of the time, the rest of the time "plans have changed."

If you're going to have that poor a track record, why be tight-lipped? Might as well blab away and let people understand you're "thinking out loud" and most of it may not happen! At least people will know the thought process then. Instead we get the A-10C hugely delayed, with missing Nevada (still to be released) while FC2 and BS2 are presented as a fait accompli to a totally shocked customer base.

I understand writing s/w is difficult, things happen you didn't plan for, etc. However, both ED and TK have over 10 years in the business and should be able to at least factor those things into their estimates. When A-10 went from "9 months after BS" to 2 years, then things like P-51 and World and JTAC or whatever show up, it gives people an uneasy feeling. Almost like they're worried people will try to talk them out of their choices, so they do them in secret until the release is imminent? I'm sure there's a cultural thing to it as well, but in that case GrViper should be able to grasp it at least!

[Gr.Viper 131]

but in that case GrViper should be able to grasp it at least!

As one of our greatest classic writers (Gogol) put it "A Russian person should be thanked even for the mere intention."

 

When it comes to announcements and PR, the SOP is to treat Russian studios as standup philosophers until they deliver the goods.

[FastCargo 412]

DCS World, once fully deployed and out of Beta, will have 3rd party Modules (Jets) being released faster than FSX Did. every module will be pretty much Study Sim Level of Detail.

 

I am very skeptical of this. MSFS is what everyone thinks of when they hear PC based flight simulation. And that's from a company with extremely deep pockets catering to a significantly larger market.

 

And look what happened there.

 

Hardcore military flight simulation is a niche market of a niche market. I don't think the volume will ever be there to support what you are saying. I hope I'm wrong....but based on previous history, I doubt it.

 

Any follow on sim I decide to mod for must have at least the same capabilities as the TW series and be as easy to mod for. Otherwise, there is no reason for me to jump ship.

 

FC

[+SkateZilla 49]

a few adjustments in max and i was able to export 2 planes that i had modeled for SF2 to DCS's format.

 

now the Flight Model and systems part... i dunno

[FastCargo 412]

That's what I'd be curious about. Models I've never been concerned about if the program has exporters for the most common 3d programs...its all the other stuff....

 

FC

[+Old Diego 66]

a few adjustments in max and i was able to export 2 planes that i had modeled for SF2 to DCS's format.

 

now the Flight Model and systems part... i dunno

 

Curious about this...can you import your model into DCS? I heard that they were going to be developer approved mods and released only through them. I could be wrong, of course.

 

 

If things go south for all things Thirdwire, I wonder if all of those other possible moddable game devs out there notice a community waiting in the wings. Many with new ideas, game engine exploitation experience and the artistic skills.

[murad 1]

Curious about this...can you import your model into DCS? I heard that they were going to be developer approved mods and released only through them. I could be wrong, of course.

 

 

If things go south for all things Thirdwire, I wonder if all of those other possible moddable game devs out there notice a community waiting in the wings. Many with new ideas, game engine exploitation experience and the artistic skills.

 

even if things really do go south <i doubt, and hope not> the downfall would take quite a while imho, it's not like any of the sf titles are hideous or anything - heck even eaw is still modded today.

otoh just for the record, there already is a sim which has been looking for community driven theaters, skins and 3d model since september 2011, along with many others. heck it doesn't even have to be a flight sim as long as it's moddable modders can always find another base easily...

[+SkateZilla 49]

im pretty sure eagle dynamics will only host modules that are QA tested.

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

I gives up... after finding the missiles were lucky to get a hit rate of 1:48 I jumped over to the A-7 campaign.... now it can't be finished because the AI F-14's and AAW destroyers can't defend the fleet for toffee so the boat gets sunk while I'm out bombing something for the 5th time...

 

Think I'm gonna jump ship and get my teeth into F4AF until I see how DCS world pans out.

 

Craig

[+SkateZilla 49]

well another thing keeping from playing SF2 besides my GPU being RMA'd

 

my X52 bit the dirt in the last few days,

 

when fully connected it blinks, none of the stick inputs work, but the throttle buttons and axis do,

 

I guess the PS/2 cable or connector went bad.?

[+SupGen 79]

fallenpheonix, are you using stock TW AIM-54's or ones from McGunny's weapons Pack? Only asking because the stock missles seemed like magic bullets ( stock A's were much more capable than the CE's in the pack ); had to do a little judicious editing to make the A's in the Pack work. Even with most of the values (accuracy, countermeasures, reliabilty,) less than the stock AIM-54A's the A's from the pack work pretty well.

[Z09SS 21]

Here's a rant.

 

For a company that's named Third Wire the carrier environment is miserable.

 

No meatball, no wing folds, no landing lights.

 

Two maps have ocean, no carriers. One of those maps has Navy and Marine campaigns!

 

Lots and lots of people like to ramp start, taxi and stuff. I do so tire of being told what game I want by the developer instead of him listening to the features we're asking for.

 

I'm a bit peeved at all the effort put into minor variations of existing planes for nations not on any of the maps and ignoring major types that are.

[Wrench 9,846]

you'll find a LOT of what you're looking for in the downloads section

[+SkateZilla 49]

Here's a rant.

 

For a company that's named Third Wire the carrier environment is miserable.

 

No meatball, no wing folds, no landing lights.

 

Win.