are sidewinder 9Bs really that horrible?

[Vertical_Luke 0]

I have done everything I can think of, always get the lock, then fire with a good orientation to target, not too many g's, and the missile just happily flies off straight somewhere. I have fired maybe 30 or so, and not a single hit. ever. What am I doing wrong?

[DerAlte 0]

Yes they were!!!!!!!! :yes:

 

Early sidewinders were notorius on locking on just about everything but the target !! MiG pilots learned that when one was fired to let up off the afterburner and it usually lost the lock.

 

DerAlte

[Joe Hallenbeck 0]

I have done everything I can think of, always get the lock, then fire with a good orientation to target, not too many g's, and the missile just happily flies off straight somewhere. I have fired maybe 30 or so, and not a single hit. ever. What am I doing wrong?

 

 

I play on hard option but don't have such problem with AIM-9Bs as You. My hit ratio is somewhere around 50% an better.

[+streakeagle 871]

You have to get the "loud" tone, which isn't so loud in the stock sound files.

You can't be pulling hardly any g.

More importantly, the target has to either be flying straight or in a very gentle turn.

Targets with after burner on are much easier to hit, but with patience, a non-afterburning target dies just as easy as long as he isn't maneuvering and you have a solid tone on hm before firing.

 

50% is about right, though if you catch a strike flight of 4 flying straight and level you might get lucky and get 3 or 4 out of the 4.

 

All of my info is based on full hard settings... I don't know how things work at any other level.

[Apocal 0]

I have done everything I can think of, always get the lock, then fire with a good orientation to target, not too many g's, and the missile just happily flies off straight somewhere. I have fired maybe 30 or so, and not a single hit. ever. What am I doing wrong?

 

I've found you pretty much have to launch from 1g against a non-maneuvering target to get a decent Pk. That and getting much closer than required, just outside of effective gunnery range. Since I usually fly the Crusader online, if it's a real balls-out turn-fight I stick to guns, only using the Sidewinder if they screw up an extension.

 

BTW, nice name.

[Heck 496]

My best kill ratio is about 25-33% with Snakes, usually it's around the historical 15%. I generally get my best shots a little below the target, where the seeker can see blue sky all around it, so I'll oft times head for the weeds in pursuit, and use a Russian style uppercut technique, especially in the Crusader. Last night, flying the new Mirage Factory F-8E, I fired three Sidewinders at a 17 from beneath his tail with a good loud tone on each missile, no manuvering from him because he didn't know I was there, and only the last one got Mig parts, while the Mig driver was apparently wondering where those two smoke trails were coming from. Then again, I've had a number of missions where I've been so target fixed that I didn't notice the smoke trail of the Atoll that should have killed me until I flew through it, so I guess the AI's behavior in this case probably wasn't that inaccurate!

 

Heck

[+streakeagle 871]

AIM-9Bs just aren't useful against human players that see the missile coming, chop their throttles, and turn into the shot.

I only gets kills with an AIM-9B against people that are inexperienced and try to blindly extend in full afterburner.

But I had one shot with an AIM-9B during online multiplayer dogfight that really stands out.

We were probably 7 or 8 thousand feet up and my opponent dove for the deck.

I chopped my throttle and pushed through with negative g's into a 70 or 80 degree dive.

I pointed at his exhaust, unloaded the g, and fired the AIM-9 without regard for tone, his lack of afterburner, or the fact that the ground filled my entire field of view.

The guy I was flying against was an online veteran.

He knew that I always fired AIM-9Bs just to scare people into turning toward me (I am good at high deflection snapshots with guns).

He knew that AIM-9Bs rarely hit with the afterburner off or when pointed at the ground.

He was so sure that he wouldn't get hit that he completetly ignored my shot.

His airplane disintegrated when the AIM-9B went up his tailpipe.

I don't know if the missile tracked or not, maybe it was just a lucky collision, either way I hit and killed him.

It was a miracle shot that I have never duplicated.

 

Now AIM-9Ds are a lot more useful.

And AIM-9Gs and AIM-9Hs are a lot more likely to get decent hits under adverse conditions, almost comparable to the AIM-9L.

 

Unfortunately, my favorite ride, the F-4E, only carries USAF AIM-9B/E/J missiles.

None of those are nearly as good as the Navy variants, though the J seems to be noticably better than the B and E.

[Rambler 1-1 9]

I only use 'winders to take out strike planes that don't turn, or If I've run out of guns. My rule is that If you can get them with two rounds of guns, you can get them with a 'winder-B.

[Caesar 305]

Just flew a mission with the new F-8 armed with 2B's and 1C. The C (radar guided) hit well in an off-angle nose-on shot, the Bs hit 1 out of 2, both fired at roughly the same parameters. The first one, just as a MiG-19 had run out of smack and was back level, I had good tone and fired from 6-o'clock, he was not in burner, 1G. He just began to maneuver, but as stated, no speed and way too late, tailpiped. Second missile fired on a straight and level MiG-19, but I was just coming out of a turn, might have been excessive G still, but it sailed just under his wings, popping up in front of the pit. Finished him with guns.

 

Generally speaking I get good results with the B when the opposition is straight and level, or just beginning or ending a maneuver. Outside of that, very low Pk.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Caesar

[kesegy 5]

On hard settings, in combat I usually get 1 hit out of 4, sometimes 2 on a good day.

so lately i tend to save my AIM-9Bs for the trip back home when I often cross paths with those dumb straight-flying-see-nothing-hear-nothing enemy sorties, when i just move to their six and pick them off one by one. sure, scoring such easy kills leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but hey, it makes for a nice explosion and it helps to raise aim-9b's pk and thats always a good thing for those starving defense contractors :-)

one other thing I was interested in: during campaign in WOV and WOE, the are some sidewinder variants that always come in really small quantities. I'm not home right now, but I think I always have much more AIM-9P's than L's. Is this historically accurate, links to web reference appreciated.

[Canadair 16]

On hard settings, in combat I usually get 1 hit out of 4, sometimes 2 on a good day.

so lately i tend to save my AIM-9Bs for the trip back home when I often cross paths with those dumb straight-flying-see-nothing-hear-nothing enemy sorties, when i just move to their six and pick them off one by one. sure, scoring such easy kills leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but hey, it makes for a nice explosion and it helps to raise aim-9b's pk and thats always a good thing for those starving defense contractors :-)

one other thing I was interested in: during campaign in WOV and WOE, the are some sidewinder variants that always come in really small quantities. I'm not home right now, but I think I always have much more AIM-9P's than L's. Is this historically accurate, links to web reference appreciated.

 

1 oout of 4; same hit rate of the R-77.. and in this cas some data to be controlled

[+Brain32 265]

Not mine R-77's I adjusted some modern Russian missiles because they were about the same as HVAR's in regards to a-a effectiveness

However facing a MiG-29 or Su-27 now is really a new expirience and even in the mighty F-15C I'm really worried when facing a flight of Su-27's...

[sparkomatic 7]

The target can also be straight-level, but the 9B would get sun-dazed as well...so if the sun (that big bright thing outside) is behind your target, it will be a no go.

 

Have only used 9B against bombers, then they dont apparently pack enough bang for the Tu-16, which it failed to even make limp.

 

A -17 will get away, unless you wait until the -17 sets for home (usually you know this happens because he will either climb and dash or dive and dash) then you can try it

[+Dave 2,322]

Thus what makes this sime so great. Flying an F-4B, 4 Winder B's, 4 Sparrows and no gun. VS a Mig-17. I have yet to find a sim where it is any tougher.

[Joe Hallenbeck 0]

Thus what makes this sime so great. Flying an F-4B, 4 Winder B's, 4 Sparrows and no gun. VS a Mig-17. I have yet to find a sim where it is any tougher.

 

Yeah I agree. It's great :yes:

[Apocal 0]

Thus what makes this sime so great. Flying an F-4B, 4 Winder B's, 4 Sparrows and no gun. VS a Mig-17. I have yet to find a sim where it is any tougher.

 

I dunno dude, merging against a Fulcrum when you're in a -16 or -18 with 9Ms is pretty much a kick straight to the pills.

[+Gocad 26]

I dunno dude, merging against a Fulcrum when you're in a -16 or -18 with 9Ms is pretty much a kick straight to the pills.

 

Well, about twenty years of further development should have lead to some improvement with regard to its capabilities.

There are worlds between the AIM-9B and the AIM-9M.

 

AIM-9Bs do hit...but only under certain conditions, most of which have been already mentioned here. But in my opinion the most vital aspect is to get as close as possible, let's say 1-2 nm, not more. Unfortunately you seldom find yourself in such a favorable position.

Edited January 25, 2008 by Gocad

[Apocal 0]

Well, about twenty years of further development should have lead to some improvement with regard to its capabilities.

There are worlds between the AIM-9B and the AIM-9M.

 

I was just making a half-joking comparison between the relative difficulty of the two scenarios. In one, I think to myself, 'how long before I win'. In the other, I think 'how can I survive'. Certainly on paper it's easier to employ a 9M vice a 9B. However, the relative merits of the aircraft to flavor things quite a bit. I honestly can't think of the last time I honestly lost to a -17 flying an F-4. And it's been quite awhile for the -21 as well.

 

AIM-9Bs do hit...but only under certain conditions, most of which have been already mentioned here. But in my opinion the most vital aspect is to get as close as possible, let's say 1-2 nm, not more. Unfortunately you seldom find yourself in such a favorable position.

 

You can get closer than 1nm, as long as you are careful to maintain close to zero overtake. At least in my experience anyway.

[brother_bethor 0]

I have similar problem with 9E. I can't hit anything with it. I hear the growl lock (replaced sound file) and I'm not pulling any g's. Sometimes missiles fly towards the targets but never hit them, more often they just fly straight ahead. Almost all of my kills are with Sparrow 7E (just few by cannon pod).

[Thog10 0]

Thus what makes this sime so great. Flying an F-4B, 4 Winder B's, 4 Sparrows and no gun. VS a Mig-17. I have yet to find a sim where it is any tougher.

 

 

After seeing missle after missle miss in that scenario, I really do start questioning loudly "who forgot to mount a gun on this airframe?"

[Mladuna 0]

After seeing missle after missle miss in that scenario, I really do start questioning loudly "who forgot to mount a gun on this airframe?"

Apparently, it happens even today. The British considered the gun unnecessary on the Typhoon F2.

Luckily, they changed their mind.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon_variants

and: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../03/ntyph03.xml

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

WTF how can you design a fighter plane without a gun .. it`s like a racecar without wheels!

[Gr.Viper 131]

More of racecar without brakes - you can start, you can speed to 300... you try it on a track - you're dead. :yes:

[Stick 773]

AIM-9B's are like throwing rocks at birds.Mudcat Walker did say now -guns are the modern equivalent of a knife-fight. And for that era and day guns were weapon to choice. Now everything might be stand-off. Man's better efforts are directed toward making existence a little easier. And so we must progress.There are times though when we hark back to those days of yore when our usual methods fail

Hell, taking a lead shot or even a high angle snap shot while you are teetering at the edge of a stall, clinging on to controlled flight by your seemingly numb rudders, as your nemesis roars past you like an avenging fury; is the ultimate satisfaction , when you hit that is... otherwise dive, pump the throttle, bend over and kiss your rear good-bye( yeah i've incorporated the advanced AI), and when you've done that get outta dodge! Or if you've got big cojones go back keep trying until you've taken a chomp out of that bad-ass.