How to change missile guidance?

[JamesWilson 15]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to recreate the 1st Gulf of Sidra Incident with my F-14A Tomcats and my Su-22M3 Fitters, doing it extremely historically accurate, paying attention to every little detail.

So far i've done everything, and it's almost identical to the real one, but there's ONE issue i can't figure out, let me explain:

During the morning of the 19th of August 1981 two F-14A Tomcats intercepted two Libyan Su-22M3 Fitters in the Gulf of Sidra.

The Fitters were equipped with two AA-2 "Atoll".

Just before the merge, while nose-to-nose, one of the two Fitters fired a missile to one of the two Tomcats, but being the missile a very old and primitive heatseeker, it started tracked and going for the Tomcat, but as soon as the F-14 made a slight break, the Atoll lost its track.

The PROBLEM IS:

There's no way i can make the Fitters shoot the missiles before merging, if only the AA-2, or any other equippable missile was all-aspect or radar guided just like the R-23, i think it would work.

I tried having a head-on merge with two Mig-23 Floggers equipped with radar guided R-23s and they shot at me before merging.

I tried all other available missiles and nothing changed, some didn't show either.

I tried copying and pasting the Data file from the Aim-7 to the R-60 Data file, and nothing changed.

I tried changing the loadout file to R-23, but the Fitters show up without any weapon since there's no R-23 option in loadout for Su-23M3s, so i think it's not possible to have them (and would be historically inaccurate too).

I tried changing enemy difficulty from Normal to Hard, but nothing changes still.

The only thing the Fitters do is shooting their guns just before the merge, but no missiles are fired when nose-to-nose.

Is there a way to fix this? A way i can make my Fitters fire at least one of their missiles when we're nose-to-nose, just like when i got nose-to-nose against Floggers equipped with R-23s?

Is it a problem with the enemy AI? Or with the missiles? Or maybe even with the Su-22M3 Fitter i'm using?

Thank you very much for helping me

[MigBuster 2,884]

I would think using the weapon editor or whatever to create a new AA-2 that is all aspect but has a hit chance of zero or something like that.

[JamesWilson 15]

38 minutes ago, MigBuster said:

I would think using the weapon editor or whatever to create a new AA-2 that is all aspect but has a hit chance of zero or something like that.

It's more for the Fitter to shoot first rather than actually being at "risk" of being hit, even tho would be good to actually have a threat.

I may do that, even tho i have no idea how to.

Is there any other way? Like some workaround or setting i gotta set, maybe a specific Su-22 that is on the website that has radar missiles too? Or if there's a way to add the radar missiles to the Fitter and select them? Cause it can only equip AA-2s and R-60s by default IIRC.

If there's any way would be nice other than editing a new AA-2, would be very appreciated.

I'm really trying to make it as realistic and accurate as possible.

Thank you

[csb 12]

Have you used the 3W Weapons Editor?

Open it, choose a missile and it will open a page with all the parameters of that missile; most can be changed.

Click Guidance Type and a drop down list appears. You can change the missile to any other guidance type.

However, changing missile guidance type may prohibit that missile from being loaded to its usual weapon Station. Weapon stations (located in the aircraft's ini iirc) are specific to missile types but can be easily edited.

Also can change many launch parameters.

Edited March 31 by csb

[JamesWilson 15]

19 minutes ago, csb said:

Have you used the 3W Weapons Editor?

Open it, choose a missile and it will open a page with all the parameters of that missile; most can be changed.

Click Guidance Type and a drop down list appears. You can change the missile to any other guidance type.

However, changing missile guidance type may prohibit that missile from being loaded to its usual weapon Station. Weapon stations (located in the aircraft's ini iirc) are specific to missile types but can be easily edited.

Also can change many launch parameters.

How do i change the weapon station? I wanna change the AA-2D from rear heatseeker to all-aspect or radar guided.

If i change to all-aspect do i have to change the weapon station too? And when changed to radar guided, i just change name to the station, or i have to mess around with numbers and parameters too?

[+EricJ 4,238]

54 minutes ago, JamesWilson said:

How do i change the weapon station? I wanna change the AA-2D from rear heatseeker to all-aspect or radar guided.

If i change to all-aspect do i have to change the weapon station too? And when changed to radar guided, i just change name to the station, or i have to mess around with numbers and parameters too?

No, it just changes the parameters of the missile, but I think there's a field to change the weapon station anyway if needed. It's pretty straightforward as csb says. It's really not that hard once you check it out.

[JamesWilson 15]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

No, it just changes the parameters of the missile, but I think there's a field to change the weapon station anyway if needed. It's pretty straightforward as csb says. It's really not that hard once you check it out.

I hope it works, i'll see what i can do.

Do enemy AI fire all-aspect heatseekers at you when heads-on? Or do i need to turn those AA-2s into radar guided missiles?

[csb 12]

In the weapons editor change guidance type to what you want. I suggest you look at some parameters  that you may like to change, eg accuracy, max sensor range, min sensor range.

Then click accept. Then click save. The missile is now changed in the Cat file.

NB take a phone pic in case you want to change back.

Each aircraft have several weapon stations which you can easily edit by adding another weapon class to that station. So you can type IR or SAHM and now that type of missile can be loaded on that station. 

Open Mig23 ini, go down to the Weapon station that holds missiles and add SAHM or whatever. Note; possibly the weapon station may already be able to carry a SAHM but if not listed then just add it.

Going to sleep now. I can help tomorrow if you have more Qs.

 

[+EricJ 4,238]

36 minutes ago, JamesWilson said:

I hope it works, i'll see what i can do.

Do enemy AI fire all-aspect heatseekers at you when heads-on? Or do i need to turn those AA-2s into radar guided missiles?

I would say yes. I mean the scenario you talked about was more or less a not so qualified pilot wishing to take a shot trying to down an American plane. He probably thought he could get a kill but that's for me to speculate, but yes they fire all-aspect (the AI does).

[JamesWilson 15]

3 hours ago, csb said:

In the weapons editor change guidance type to what you want. I suggest you look at some parameters  that you may like to change, eg accuracy, max sensor range, min sensor range.

Then click accept. Then click save. The missile is now changed in the Cat file.

NB take a phone pic in case you want to change back.

Each aircraft have several weapon stations which you can easily edit by adding another weapon class to that station. So you can type IR or SAHM and now that type of missile can be loaded on that station. 

Open Mig23 ini, go down to the Weapon station that holds missiles and add SAHM or whatever. Note; possibly the weapon station may already be able to carry a SAHM but if not listed then just add it.

Going to sleep now. I can help tomorrow if you have more Qs.

 

Thank you so much!

I'll try to use the weapons editor tomorrow if i get time, will keep you updated. So i don't need to swap files? Just making changes through editor and it changes the whole files?

And btw, by changing parameters through text in .ini files doesn't work right? I tried changing the "guidance type" number from 10 to other numbers (idk what each number represents and/or if that could have worked) in Data files, but nothing changed, the AA-2 missile still had rear-aspect capabilities. So in order to edit weapons it's only through weapons editor? It's not a problem to me using it, it's just to know.

Thanks again for helping me

[JamesWilson 15]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

I would say yes. I mean the scenario you talked about was more or less a not so qualified pilot wishing to take a shot trying to down an American plane. He probably thought he could get a kill but that's for me to speculate, but yes they fire all-aspect (the AI does).

Amazing!

I'll change the parameters from rear to all-aspect then, so that the Su-22 fires a missile even while heads on.

Thank you very much, i'll keep you updated once i edit those

[Wrench 9,845]

just breaking in here ... just curious as to HOW you can fire a radar guided missile from an aircraft that DON'T have an air intercept radar????

Without a human player in the Fitter's cockpit to "attempt' a lock and fire the IR missile, there's not real way to recreate the actual event. And as SF2 has no multiplayer...

Sorry to put ice water on the idea, but there you have it. Editing the missile, hardpoints aren't gonna work no matter what.

[+Gepard 11,287]

The R-3S (AA-2 Atoll) was a tail chaiser, not a all-aspect weapon. It was unable to lock on an incoming plane. Same with AIM-9B. No chance to lock on incoming planes. All changes, which make them all-aspect are unrealistic.

[+mehlhorndirk 6]

Hello,

concerning the incident over Syrte in the year1981 it is not clear if the Su-22 or Su-22M were armed with either the R-3S or the more advanced R-13M. It can be that an R-3s was fired by mistake or that an R-13M was fired with an “limited” head-on look. If the seek of an R-13M were close to the heat source it could be possible to look on head-on. But the distance was normally too close as that the missile could guide properly. Therefore, the term “Limited” Head-On capability.

 

 

To solve the problem in game I propose:

a Give the missile an all-aspect capability,

reduce the "max. Launch Range" and/or the "max Seeker Range", reduce the "Seeker Gimble Limit", reduce the "Max Turn Rate" & reduce the "Seek Track Rate".

The exact values must be determined by “try and error”.
Since the Su-22 and the Su-22M don’t have a proper aiming system for air-to-air combat with missiles, you have to archive an look-on via PKI (boresight).

Attached may some additional information about the FON over Syrte.

 

 

[csb 12]

Here is a general step by step:

Edit missiles in weapons editor.

After clicking save, the editor creates a folder, eg AA-2 Atoll, in your saved games. You can look in Objects / Weapons but leave it there. (This file can be deleted to reset to original.)

Now open the aircraft's data ini and go down to Weapon Stations and ensure the station can carry the missile type you changed to. If not then just add it. Missile abbreviation is same as listed under Station Class on the main page of the Weapons Editor.

You may also need to add an item to AttachmentType.

Example is F-4B data ini:

AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,IRM     (Original listed only SAHM so I added IRM. The IRM)
AttachmentType=NATO,USN               (needed USN attachment so I also added USN.)

The aircraft Loadout ini may help identify what weapon stations carry what missiles. Example is F-4B loadout ini.
The "Station 6 = Sparrow Station 1" coincides with StationID=6 in the F4-B data ini

// Station 1 = Left Wing Station Outboard
// Station 2 = Right Wing Station Outboard
// Station 3 = Left Wing Station Inboard
// Station 4 = Right Wing Station Inboard
// Station 5 = Centerline Fueslage Station
// Station 6 = Sparrow Station 1
// Station 7 = Sparrow Station 2
// Station 8 = Sparrow Station 3
// Station 9 = Sparrow Station 4
// Station 10 = Sidewinder Station 1
// Station 11 = Sidewinder Station 2
// Station 12 = Sidewinder Station 3
// Station 13 = Sidewinder Station 4
// Station 14 = Left Wing Station Outboard, FT
// Station 15 = Right Wing Station Outboard, FT
// Station 16 = Centerline Fueslage Station, FT

Of course the aircraft ini's need to be extracted with the Cat extractor. As easy to use as the WeaponsEditor.

A list of the files in each cat can be found as a zip in Gerwin's post in this thread: .cat file content - Thirdwire: Strike Fighters 2 Series - General Discussion - CombatACE

In the zip, each cat is a notepad with the list of contents in that cat. Many cats and long list (this is why my examples above were for F4-B, it was taking too long to find the SU-22)

Craig

Edited April 1 by csb

[JamesWilson 15]

11 hours ago, Gepard said:

The R-3S (AA-2 Atoll) was a tail chaiser, not a all-aspect weapon. It was unable to lock on an incoming plane. Same with AIM-9B. No chance to lock on incoming planes. All changes, which make them all-aspect are unrealistic.

I know they are, that's why i would avoid that, but for the purpose of historical accuracy of the incident that would be the only solution.

I may edit only a specific loadout so that the Fitters in the custom mission use the all-aspect missiles, but when flying instant ones they use real loadouts

[JamesWilson 15]

11 hours ago, Wrench said:

just breaking in here ... just curious as to HOW you can fire a radar guided missile from an aircraft that DON'T have an air intercept radar????

Without a human player in the Fitter's cockpit to "attempt' a lock and fire the IR missile, there's not real way to recreate the actual event. And as SF2 has no multiplayer...

Sorry to put ice water on the idea, but there you have it. Editing the missile, hardpoints aren't gonna work no matter what.

I hope by using the editor there's a way to make those work

[JamesWilson 15]

10 hours ago, mehlhorndirk said:

Hello,

concerning the incident over Syrte in the year1981 it is not clear if the Su-22 or Su-22M were armed with either the R-3S or the more advanced R-13M. It can be that an R-3s was fired by mistake or that an R-13M was fired with an “limited” head-on look. If the seek of an R-13M were close to the heat source it could be possible to look on head-on. But the distance was normally too close as that the missile could guide properly. Therefore, the term “Limited” Head-On capability.

 

 

To solve the problem in game I propose:

a Give the missile an all-aspect capability,

reduce the "max. Launch Range" and/or the "max Seeker Range", reduce the "Seeker Gimble Limit", reduce the "Max Turn Rate" & reduce the "Seek Track Rate".

The exact values must be determined by “try and error”.
Since the Su-22 and the Su-22M don’t have a proper aiming system for air-to-air combat with missiles, you have to archive an look-on via PKI (boresight).

Attached may some additional information about the FON over Syrte.

 

 

Thank you a lot for the inputs and infos on the Incident, i didn't know exactly the dynamics.

I'll try your suggestions and see how it goes, will keep you updated

[JamesWilson 15]

1 hour ago, csb said:

Here is a general step by step:

Edit missiles in weapons editor.

After clicking save, the editor creates a folder, eg AA-2 Atoll, in your saved games. You can look in Objects / Weapons but leave it there. (This file can be deleted to reset to original.)

Now open the aircraft's data ini and go down to Weapon Stations and ensure the station can carry the missile type you changed to. If not then just add it. Missile abbreviation is same as listed under Station Class on the main page of the Weapons Editor.

You may also need to add an item to AttachmentType.

Example is F-4B data ini:

AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,IRM     (Original listed only SAHM so I added IRM. The IRM)
AttachmentType=NATO,USN               (needed USN attachment so I also added USN.)

The aircraft Loadout ini may help identify what weapon stations carry what missiles. Example is F-4B loadout ini.
The "Station 6 = Sparrow Station 1" coincides with StationID=6 in the F4-B data ini

// Station 1 = Left Wing Station Outboard
// Station 2 = Right Wing Station Outboard
// Station 3 = Left Wing Station Inboard
// Station 4 = Right Wing Station Inboard
// Station 5 = Centerline Fueslage Station
// Station 6 = Sparrow Station 1
// Station 7 = Sparrow Station 2
// Station 8 = Sparrow Station 3
// Station 9 = Sparrow Station 4
// Station 10 = Sidewinder Station 1
// Station 11 = Sidewinder Station 2
// Station 12 = Sidewinder Station 3
// Station 13 = Sidewinder Station 4
// Station 14 = Left Wing Station Outboard, FT
// Station 15 = Right Wing Station Outboard, FT
// Station 16 = Centerline Fueslage Station, FT

Of course the aircraft ini's need to be extracted with the Cat extractor. As easy to use as the WeaponsEditor.

A list of the files in each cat can be found as a zip in Gerwin's post in this thread: .cat file content - Thirdwire: Strike Fighters 2 Series - General Discussion - CombatACE

In the zip, each cat is a notepad with the list of contents in that cat. Many cats and long list (this is why my examples above were for F4-B, it was taking too long to find the SU-22)

Craig

So basically i need Cat extractor, is that a program?

And can't i edit things just manually in notepad just like everything else?

Sorry i have no idea what the Cat extractor is, how to use it, what's the point of it, and what "cat" does even mean.

Technically if i change the SU-22 heatseekers from rear to all-aspect i don't need the Cat extractor but just the Weapons editor right?

[csb 12]

1) Edit missiles with Weapons Editor WE. When edited and saved you don't need to do anything else.

2) Edit ini files manually using notepad. But most are located in a cat file and need to be extracted with the catextractor CE.

So, in your case, you need to extract the aircraft data ini & aircraft loadout ini from their Cat file so you can edit in notepad.

3rd Wire provides their CE and you can download at combatace: SF2 utilities - where WE is also found. Or from 3W website.

Extract the required ini's, open with notepad and manually edit. Save the various aircraft ini's in its folder in SF2 saved games aircraft folder. Such as:

This PC/Local Disc c:/Users/Craig/Saved Games/Thirdwire/StrikeFighters2/Objects/Aircraft/F-4B

This Strikefighters folder is commonly called the mods folder and is created by the game when it is first started.

(You will need the Cat file zip by Gerwin, linked previously, to help locate your aircraft's ini files, or any ini file. So save this zip. Note these are not cat files, just  notepads listing contents of each cat.)

Using the WE and the CE is simple to use. They auto install to Thidwire folder where SF2 is installed but created/extracted files are placed elsewhere.

The WE seems to put folder/files where they belong in the mods folder.

But the CE puts folder/files in a folder called Extracted files in Saved Games folder next to mods folder. So you need to move your chosen folder/files into the mods folder.

This stuff has many steps but simple and easy to work out.

Craig

Edited April 1 by csb

[JamesWilson 15]

1 hour ago, csb said:

1) Edit missiles with Weapons Editor WE. When edited and saved you don't need to do anything else.

2) Edit ini files manually using notepad. But most are located in a cat file and need to be extracted with the catextractor CE.

So, in your case, you need to extract the aircraft data ini & aircraft loadout ini from their Cat file so you can edit in notepad.

3rd Wire provides their CE and you can download at combatace: SF2 utilities - where WE is also found. Or from 3W website.

Extract the required ini's, open with notepad and manually edit. Save the various aircraft ini's in its folder in SF2 saved games aircraft folder. Such as:

This PC/Local Disc c:/Users/Craig/Saved Games/Thirdwire/StrikeFighters2/Objects/Aircraft/F-4B

This Strikefighters folder is commonly called the mods folder and is created by the game when it is first started.

(You will need the Cat file zip by Gerwin, linked previously, to help locate your aircraft's ini files, or any ini file. So save this zip. Note these are not cat files, just  notepads listing contents of each cat.)

Using the WE and the CE is simple to use. They auto install to Thidwire folder where SF2 is installed but created/extracted files are placed elsewhere.

The WE seems to put folder/files where they belong in the mods folder.

But the CE puts folder/files in a folder called Extracted files in Saved Games folder next to mods folder. So you need to move your chosen folder/files into the mods folder.

This stuff has many steps but simple and easy to work out.

Craig

I'll follow every step and do my best. Thank you immensly for detailed explanation and will to help me through this.

So i gotta edit the missile first through Weapon Editor and then edit the files through Cat, once edited i copy and paste deleting the old ones, correct?

If i wanna keep the original ones i just gotta make a backup and then when i want to revert just copy and paste.

I hope that's everything.

I have to use the newest version of WE, CE and GE? The ones from 2012?

[+Gepard 11,287]

12 hours ago, mehlhorndirk said:

Hello,

concerning the incident over Syrte in the year1981 it is not clear if the Su-22 or Su-22M were armed with either the R-3S or the more advanced R-13M. It can be that an R-3s was fired by mistake or that an R-13M was fired with an “limited” head-on look. If the seek of an R-13M were close to the heat source it could be possible to look on head-on. But the distance was normally too close as that the missile could guide properly. Therefore, the term “Limited” Head-On capability.

 

 

The R-13M, Advanced Atoll, had not had a head on capability. It never had, not even under optimal conditions. The first soviet all aspect AAM was the late R-60 (AA-8 Aphid).

If you read the american story of this dogfight you will find, hat the libyan Su-22 fired the missile at a range of 300 meters or less. This is deep in the so called "dead zone", also the distance were the missile is not guided and is flying only ballistically. The "dead zone" of a R-3S is 1.000 - 1.500 meters, the R-13M had a dead zone of 600 to 800 meters. In this zone the missile will hit nothing. And the pilots knew it very well.  So it is doubtfull, that the fight happend so, as it is publicated in western media.

The Libyans tell another story. They say, that the Su-22 came in the back of a F-14 pair and fired one missile, which hit one F-14. They showed this photo as evidence:

This photo is not an evidence of a kill, but only of a hit. Maybe the Tomcat was only damaged and made it back to the carrier.

The Libyans admit to have lost two Su-22 at this day. They say, that six F-14 were vectored toward the Sukhois to save the attacked Tomcat pair. And this six F-14 shot down the Sukhois.

[JamesWilson 15]

1 hour ago, Gepard said:

 

The R-13M, Advanced Atoll, had not had a head on capability. It never had, not even under optimal conditions. The first soviet all aspect AAM was the late R-60 (AA-8 Aphid).

If you read the american story of this dogfight you will find, hat the libyan Su-22 fired the missile at a range of 300 meters or less. This is deep in the so called "dead zone", also the distance were the missile is not guided and is flying only ballistically. The "dead zone" of a R-3S is 1.000 - 1.500 meters, the R-13M had a dead zone of 600 to 800 meters. In this zone the missile will hit nothing. And the pilots knew it very well.  So it is doubtfull, that the fight happend so, as it is publicated in western media.

The Libyans tell another story. They say, that the Su-22 came in the back of a F-14 pair and fired one missile, which hit one F-14. They showed this photo as evidence:

This photo is not an evidence of a kill, but only of a hit. Maybe the Tomcat was only damaged and made it back to the carrier.

The Libyans admit to have lost two Su-22 at this day. They say, that six F-14 were vectored toward the Sukhois to save the attacked Tomcat pair. And this six F-14 shot down the Sukhois.

This is outstanding info!!!

How did you get those? Is there any link or source? I'm looking for so long for infos regarding 1st and 2nd Gulf of Sidra Incidents and i can't find much, it's like the dynamics have already been discussed and there's nothing else to find. I'd really love to read more, it's even hard to find infos regarding the variant of Su-22 that was shot down and which missile they did fire.

Regarding SF2:

IIRC i tried equipping the Su-22 with Aphids all-aspect, but they didn't fire.

Is it sure they would fire if i change in the files rear to all-aspect for the Atoll? Or they would still pass by just shooting guns? @mehlhorndirk

Back to the story:

So it was a completely different story than the one we all know and read?

But there's a thing i don't understand: If the Libyans managed to get a hit (or maybe a kill) but then Libya admits they got 2 Sukhois shot down by six F-14s, then how did the Libyans got a hit on a Tomcat? And how did they mark the hit on their plane if they got shot down during the same engagement? Multiple engagements maybe?

[csb 12]

2 hours ago, JamesWilson said:

So i gotta edit the missile first through Weapon Editor and then edit the files through Cat, once edited i copy and paste deleting the old ones, correct?

Not quite. I will divide into 2 SEPERATE activities.

1) When you use WE to change missiles, WE makes these changes to copies of the ini's and saves the copies for use. WE does NOT make changes to ini's in the cat files.

Edit AA-2 missile in WE and then save. This creates a folder called AA-2 (with edited ini's inside) in the correct place in the mods folder. That is all, you are finished with this missile change. Do not touch the ini's in the folder. In game the AA-2 has new parameter changes.

This is how you edit missile ini's - not manually in notepad.

If you want to make more changes or adjust your changes for the missile then again use the WE to make changes and WE will edit the copies.

If you want to reset the missile to default then just delete the folder with ini's inside. The game will use original ini's (which are actually in the cat files).

For your scenario; in the WE look at these parameters - Timer delay & min range (possibly reduce this distance). There may be others to change and experiment with.

 

Note: I got carried away. You just want to change AA-2 to all aspect. I got mixed up and gave info for if changed guidance type. So after you do above then that is it. You do not need to make edits to aircraft data ini's.

I left in the catextractor explanation below just for useful info.

2) The CE, however, makes copies of the ini's in the cat files and puts the copies in a folder, created by CE, called Extracted files in the Saved Games folder, next to the SF mods folder. Then user can edit the ini's in notepad and place in suitable sub folders in the SF mods folder. So all CE does is make a copy of ini - it does not edit.

You are editing copies of ini's made by CE and same for WE, it edits copies. No changes are permanent because you can delete the copies and game will use originals.

 

Edited April 1 by csb

[JamesWilson 15]

2 hours ago, csb said:

Not quite. I will divide into 2 SEPERATE activities.

1) When you use WE to change missiles, WE makes these changes to copies of the ini's and saves the copies for use. WE does NOT make changes to ini's in the cat files.

Edit AA-2 missile in WE and then save. This creates a folder called AA-2 (with edited ini's inside) in the correct place in the mods folder. That is all, you are finished with this missile change. Do not touch the ini's in the folder. In game the AA-2 has new parameter changes.

This is how you edit missile ini's - not manually in notepad.

If you want to make more changes or adjust your changes for the missile then again use the WE to make changes and WE will edit the copies.

If you want to reset the missile to default then just delete the folder with ini's inside. The game will use original ini's (which are actually in the cat files).

For your scenario; in the WE look at these parameters - Timer delay & min range (possibly reduce this distance). There may be others to change and experiment with.

 

Note: I got carried away. You just want to change AA-2 to all aspect. I got mixed up and gave info for if changed guidance type. So after you do above then that is it. You do not need to make edits to aircraft data ini's.

I left in the catextractor explanation below just for useful info.

2) The CE, however, makes copies of the ini's in the cat files and puts the copies in a folder, created by CE, called Extracted files in the Saved Games folder, next to the SF mods folder. Then user can edit the ini's in notepad and place in suitable sub folders in the SF mods folder. So all CE does is make a copy of ini - it does not edit.

You are editing copies of ini's made by CE and same for WE, it edits copies. No changes are permanent because you can delete the copies and game will use originals.

 

Roger that! Will just use WE then.

The CE tutorial is indeed welcome tho, i plan to mess around with it too.

So if the CE just makes copies of .ini files, why not just copying by right clicking? So if you're saying that user can edit the .ini's in notepad after using CE, then CE basically makes copies of folders and makes .ini's editable through notepad? But IIRC i used to change things just by using notepad already, that's why i was confused, cause i didn't see the point of using WE and CE, but apparently without WE weapons stats don't change, and without CE? It basically changes the core files (like the ones for a missile)? The WE basically creates a "brand new" substitute for the vanilla missile, but the original one is still there, i just need to delete the new one to revert if i got it correctly.

Or maybe the WE is needed to change weapons parameters, but for all other things i need CE right? But i'm not new to modding and i used to remember i just needed to edit files through notepad, not having to use any CE.

I'm probably just wrong, i never went that deep into editing, and i'm probably making it more difficult than how it really is, i'm sorry for all the confusion.

I hope i got everything correct this time.

 

P.S.  IIRC i tried equipping the Su-22 with AA-8 Aphids, that if i understood correctly they're all-aspect, but even then the Su-22s didn't fire.

Is it sure they would fire if i change in the files rear to all-aspect for the Atoll, with some shootin distance editing too, and make the Sukhois use them instead? Or they would still pass by just shooting guns and all the work may be useless?

Thank you so much for your help