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What is wrong with the USAF?

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I mean...look at this guy...legendary fighter pilot / tactician / warrior / looks cool / married a movie star

 

SI99-42649_640.jpg

 

He looks like a fighter pilot, some one you would gladly follow into harm's way...retired as a Brig. Gen...barely

 

 

Then we have example "B"...was a "planner" and a "C/JFACC" during the last big show '03...didnt "do" Viet Nam

 

Moseley.jpg

 

Now USAF Chief of Staff, the highest ranking Airman and the example for the rest of the Airmen...

 

How?

 

I mean, we had choices...look at this guy:

 

Keysfiniflight.jpg

 

http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story_media.asp?id=123070087

 

Yep...that is an F-4 that he flew his fini-flight in Nov 2007...

 

read his biography...why the powers that be picked Moseley over Keys to lead the USAF will never be understood by me...ever

 

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6051

 

2x Distinguished Flying Cross and 17x Air Medals

 

***

 

No wonder the other Services make fun of us...

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Not to get off subject, but where did they get the F-4Es? Or are they Fs for the Germans that were just painted in SEA for this occasion. Or maybe drones? Whichever, cool to see them!

 

Okay, looked at the full-size images...they're drones (I think).

Edited by tn_prvteye

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Eh, not technically a drone...that particular machine (my understanding) is part of the heritage flight down at Tyndall...basically they keep it around for air shows and the like...it was spared the drone fate...just barely...and just to keep it in line and under budget, it gets parked in sight of the target drone force of QF-4E's on the same ramp...now THAT is motivation

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...and just to keep it in line and under budget, it gets parked in sight of the target drone force of QF-4E's on the same ramp...now THAT is motivation

:rofl:

 

Is the second one also on parole?

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I mean...look at this guy...legendary fighter pilot / tactician / warrior / looks cool / married a movie star

 

 

He looks like a fighter pilot, some one you would gladly follow into harm's way...retired as a Brig. Gen...barely

 

 

Then we have example "B"...was a "planner" and a "C/JFACC" during the last big show '03...didnt "do" Viet Nam

 

 

Now USAF Chief of Staff, the highest ranking Airman and the example for the rest of the Airmen...

 

How?

 

I mean, we had choices...look at this guy:

 

 

 

http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story_media.asp?id=123070087

 

Yep...that is an F-4 that he flew his fini-flight in Nov 2007...

 

read his biography...why the powers that be picked Moseley over Keys to lead the USAF will never be understood by me...ever

 

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6051

 

2x Distinguished Flying Cross and 17x Air Medals

 

***

 

No wonder the other Services make fun of us...

 

I don't know about you guys, but Wagsled, here online, has my vote. About 1% of the Air Force sees combat and of that 1% another, maybe, 25% actually shoot a weapon at a bad guy and less than 10% actually mix it up (dogfight) with a real bad guy. The guys like Robin Olds are wolves that you let out of the closet when there is a war on. Other types are better at managing the huge organization called our Air Force. Rarely do the wolves have the patience or skills necessary for running the Air Force. Isn't that a steaming pile.................

Edited by HrntFixr
Do NOT re-post pics in reply's!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I agree. If a mavrick like that would be given such a high position he'd be getting into barfights with the president flirting with the first lady and tons of other wacked out stuff. Not that I have a problem with beating up little Georgy but I doubt thats what the Beaurocrats like in a guy.

Ps: nice mustache :ok:

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That is why after 16 1/2 years in the USAF I am calling it quits. The USAF used to take care of its people, now it don't give a damn and Mosehead is 90% the problem. I am hoping the USAFR is much better. My wife just got back from a SNCO conference in San Antonio, the CSM made them sign a family contract basically saying that family is the priority. If the family isn't ready for the solider to deploy, then the soldier isn't ready to deploy. He stated that if you aren't doing your best to make sure your family is taken care, or your chain of command isn't helping you, or if you are a joint spouse couple ( like my wife and I are) and the Army isn't helping, then he wants to know. He needs focused soldiers and family is where it starts. Whether it be the right assignment, getting military couples stationed together, or a chain of command being there for the deployed soldiers family.

 

See the USAF doesn't have that, they think just throwing around a few slogans and sayings about family make it all better. It gives everyone the illusion that they are doing something. But the reaility is that if you can't do for the USAF, then they will get rid of you. Thus why I am in the boat I am in now. For 2 1/2 I had been trying to get a stationed with my wife and kids. 2 1/2 freakin' years. In January the SMSgt down at AFPC told my OIC and my Command Chief that there was nothing he could do (total BS though as there was a slot opened in Dec 07 for my rank and skill level, I knew the guy who left it) and that I needed to pursue other avenues. So I joined the USAFR. (report to my new unit Jun 7th) The day I got my reserve posting, that asshole SMSgt calls up and says, "Hey bud I got you your assignment you wanted." I was like WTF? You told my entire chain of command that there was no way in hell it was going to happen and that I need to pursue other avenues. He had the unmitigated gall to say, "I have been working on this for you, for a year now." That is when I lost it. I said to him that he was not telling the truth and that he had not been working on crap for a year and I was privy to the conversation he had with my chain of command. Well he started tap dancing and I have contacted my Congressman to put a complaint against him. I have an email paper trail a mile long and when I am done, he will be reprimanded and retired, that is straight from my Congressman himself. My point, the USAF is a hollow shell of what it used to be. There is no leaders like Fogleman or Olds anymore, there are whiz kids and number crunchers in the center seat now. We downsize 40,000 in the middle of a war. We can't get parts, we can't get enough people to do maintenance, because we are so short handed. They rob Peter to pay Paul. They are back to back to back deploying people. At least the Army is giving you a good break in between. The USAF isn't. They are "wavering" people to get them back in country. By waivering is that, you are home for a month, month and a half then back to Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

I am sorry if I sound bitter but I am. I was born on a USAF base, I have lived, eat, breathed and s**t USAF my entire life. I have 4 different career fields in the USAF. All I know is USAF and it had to come down to this. Damn shame if you ask me.

 

On the good note though, I will be with my family again in about a month. For good. Military is temporary, family is forever.

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Its Government wide USAFMTL. I could take your post, drop a couple of sentences, change a handfull of words, and it would be true for the US Forest Service's Fire Program. I think Its all caused by the massive change (or lack of) vision by the executive branch of goverment in the last 20 years. Robin Olds is one of the most visually impressive people on God Green Earth. One of the few people who sticks out in a gaggle of folks all dressed up like him. Not a jet pilot but what about this choice?

 

 

 

Link @ http://skyraider.org/skyassn/fisher/fishermoh.htm :ph34r: CL

Edited by charlielima

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Once I saw the "Cable TV Squadron" sign front of a building at Hickham Field what little respect for the AF vanished. My mom is a Navy wife, a Chief's wife at that and when my son called to say that he had joined the Marines moms reply was "thank God it's not the Air Force".

 

The AF's problem is they take themselves too seriously, less than 70 years of tradition as an independent service means you are still toddlers compared to 230+ years for the Navy, more if you count the linage to the Royal Navy. I will give the AF this, when we needed CAS for a CSAR mission the Hog drivers were guardian Angels for our helos.

 

The political game has infected all branches, I'm glad I retired when I did.

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It's not only confined to the USAF either, or any military for that matter.

 

I'm really proud to be a Brit but the state this country is in at the moment due to various "issues" (hey I won't get political, promise) make me sick, to be blunt.

 

The way our armed forces are treat too looks like a joke. The world is being run by do-gooders and the PC brigade. It stinks.

 

Damn it, I was born at least 40 years too late. Now if I was Prime Minister...let me tell you...

 

Anyway, rant over. USAFMTL you have my sympathies, can't be easy having to turn your back on what has effectively been your whole way of life.

 

I just watched a great documentary on reindeer herding in Finland, no disrespect to any Fins out there but my God, it looked a great way of life. Nice and simple, not easy by any standards but nice and simple !

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The AF's problem is they take themselves too seriously, less than 70 years of tradition as an independent service means you are still toddlers compared to 230+ years for the Navy, more if you count the linage to the Royal Navy. I will give the AF this, when we needed CAS for a CSAR mission the Hog drivers were guardian Angels for our helos.

 

Easy there killer, I may not be happy with the USAF, but its still my branch of service. 230 years of service means very little to me in the grand scheme of things of getting the mission done.

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here is another example...dependents need a re-entry permit if they leave the island for personal travel...this is basically a stamp in the passport that says "US Gov'ment says please let them enter, again"...simple...

 

If you are in the USAF you have to go to the passenger terminal regardless of if you are departing from there or Naha...you must arrive No Earlier Than 72 hours and No Later Than 24 hours prior to your scheduled departure...you MUST have the following documents:

 

- Valid US Passport with expiration date not less than 1 year from date of departure

- Sponsor's orders assigning them to the base

- Command Sponsorship Letter

- Valid military dependent ID card

- travel itinerary

- tickets

- if e-tickets, a certified letter from the travel agency or airline proving that you have tickets

- Sponsor and ALL TRAVELING FAMILY MEMBERS MUST BE PRESENT

 

...oh, and you know who stamps it? the customs clerk...only one...and if he is checking a C-5 that just flew in from Singapore...you wait...and if he goes to lunch...you wait...if he is at "PT" (which means went home early), then you come back later...or you dont get a stamp and are screwed...thanks!

 

 

Then, you get a single use stamp that is good for no more than 28 days from the time it was stamped (dont forget, you have to get it a day early, so that is really 27 days)...it is good for one and only one entry...if you are leaving again, see steps above...if you stay out past the date on the stamp, that is strictly between you and the host nation, good luck!

 

***

 

Now, if you are not in the USAF, you can go to the Marine base, to where they issue passports...here are the procedures:

 

- bring passport

 

That will get you a stamp that has unlimited entries, and is good for one year after the date it was stamped...unless you ask very nicely and they just happen to set the wrong date on the stamp to a time shall we say, more conducive to your schedule.

 

That...is it...anybody who can get your passport can get it stamped, literally no questions asked...

 

When it was brought to the Marines' attention, the difference in the procedures, they said "figures..."

 

 

***

 

Why? Not saying one is perfect, but it is these little road blocks (and I can list hundreds, just that I know about) that we set up for ourselves that are mind-boggling...like having to get a form to request a form...I have been made to do that more than once...

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I just watched a great documentary on reindeer herding in Finland, no disrespect to any Fins out there but my God, it looked a great way of life. Nice and simple, not easy by any standards but nice and simple !

The Finns ARE awesome, to sum it all up. A friend of mine (who is Finn) that got into conscription said that you can choose to have an awesome time there, or a sucky time there.

 

He choose to have an awesome time there, albeit things did get out of hand at some times (imagine people getting suited up in weird ways being one of them).

 

Politics is sure complicated.

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Well i guess its the same the world over pen pushers are getting the top jobs all the time , while your war time nut job who is heroic in war time is just a problem child now ........these sort of people never get to shine in peace time as they dont kiss ass , however come the next major war ( thats not political ) these people's conduct heroiusm speaks for its self .......mean time we put up with the pen pushers

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Like jug says: the pencil neck geeks have to keep the wolves around to bail them out when they make a bad choice on decision day.

Unfortunately we have "the best government money can buy". Ask the lobbyists.

 

 

Sorry for getting political. :fie:

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It's not the military or government, it's all modern society. The bean counters and paper pushers take over from the visionaries and founders and everything goes to hell. It's the same for any institution, government, military, private institutions, everything.

 

They put their budgets and statistic reports ahead of the people and the organization's purpose.

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That is why after 16 1/2 years in the USAF I am calling it quits. The USAF used to take care of its people, now it don't give a damn and Mosehead is 90% the problem. I am hoping the USAFR is much better. My wife just got back from a SNCO conference in San Antonio, the CSM made them sign a family contract basically saying that family is the priority. If the family isn't ready for the solider to deploy, then the soldier isn't ready to deploy. He stated that if you aren't doing your best to make sure your family is taken care, or your chain of command isn't helping you, or if you are a joint spouse couple ( like my wife and I are) and the Army isn't helping, then he wants to know. He needs focused soldiers and family is where it starts. Whether it be the right assignment, getting military couples stationed together, or a chain of command being there for the deployed soldiers family.

 

See the USAF doesn't have that, they think just throwing around a few slogans and sayings about family make it all better. It gives everyone the illusion that they are doing something. But the reaility is that if you can't do for the USAF, then they will get rid of you.

 

My point, the USAF is a hollow shell of what it used to be. There is no leaders like Fogleman or Olds anymore, there are whiz kids and number crunchers in the center seat now. We downsize 40,000 in the middle of a war. We can't get parts, we can't get enough people to do maintenance, because we are so short handed. They rob Peter to pay Paul. They are back to back to back deploying people. At least the Army is giving you a good break in between. The USAF isn't. They are "wavering" people to get them back in country. By waivering is that, you are home for a month, month and a half then back to Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

...and I'm right there with ya, if retraining doesn't help then hello USAFR and a nice base in Florida :biggrin:

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Eh...not saying that people like Moseley dont have a place...but for me, it is called a "wolf pack" for a reason...wolves can conduct business PERFECTLY if and only if they are among other wolves...

 

I feel that we have become far too PC / lazy / also-ran gets a prize / differently-abled / celebrate differences instead of celebrating winners / etc for our own good. If we hold people to standards that are focused on winning with honor rather than T-ball rules of everybody gets a turn at bat since we have become post-1990's Clinton Era, whatever you want to call it.

 

That is the problem, we are either so accepting or so concerned about not getting in trouble for hurting someone's feelings it is laming us out...

 

Not saying that we should not work together...NEVER said that...but when we cancel flying so we can all have to opportunity to reflect on the contributions of left-handed Eskimos...ask yourself if those people we are celebrating really would rather we stopped business (and by business I mean Ops) so we can eat rice pilaf and roast beef at the "community center"?

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Eh...not saying that people like Moseley dont have a place...but for me, it is called a "wolf pack" for a reason...wolves can conduct business PERFECTLY if and only if they are among other wolves...

 

I feel that we have become far too PC / lazy / also-ran gets a prize / differently-abled / celebrate differences instead of celebrating winners / etc for our own good. If we hold people to standards that are focused on winning with honor rather than T-ball rules of everybody gets a turn at bat since we have become post-1990's Clinton Era, whatever you want to call it.

 

That is the problem, we are either so accepting or so concerned about not getting in trouble for hurting someone's feelings it is laming us out...

 

Not saying that we should not work together...NEVER said that...but when we cancel flying so we can all have to opportunity to reflect on the contributions of left-handed Eskimos...ask yourself if those people we are celebrating really would rather we stopped business (and by business I mean Ops) so we can eat rice pilaf and roast beef at the "community center"?

 

 

Never truer words spoken.

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Like jug says: the pencil neck geeks have to keep the wolves around to bail them out when they make a bad choice on decision day.

Unfortunately we have "the best government money can buy". Ask the lobbyists.

 

 

Sorry for getting political. :fie:

 

Let's keep things in perspective. USAFMTL, thank you for your service. I am a former blue suiter and have been at odds with its policies as well. I jumped at the 20 year point because I felt life held a little more for me to follow flying than a desk at the Pentagon. Marines, Navy and Army, I don't think USAFMTL's rant was an invitation to pile on. The services share in their inability to deal with personnel issues. I point out that there are plenty of young tigers left in the cage. In the fifteen years since I retired, I have met my share of real dedicated men and women of our armed services and they are, indeed, your best friend and your worst enemy. Each has made a decision that somebody has to make up for the slackards, REMFs, and PC people that also wear the uniform and they have committed themselves to do the job right. Most don't get the recognition they deserve because headline opportunities are rare, but that is not what the committment is all about anyway. It is those that we celebrate. The others we just tolerate. I point to a recent ceremony in the White House where a young SEAL was presented, posthumously, the MoH for covering a grenade to save his buddies. I point to 21 days to Baghdad after we told them we were coming for three months. 21 days! I have spent some time with our Special Forces guys that, trust me, I am real glad are on our side. Fortunately, we in the service still respect and admire the tigers. Nobody writes war stories about a masterful paper-pusher. Then again, you would be hard pressed to make up the story of Robin Old's life.

 

Politics is not my strong suit, so pardon my rant. I don't know where this nation finds the young men and women that make our armed services respected and feared, but it always does. I can assure you that no-one wants to meet our today's tigers, just like our yesterday's tigers on a bad day.

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