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markkyle66

How to make the game better

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I was thinking to myself that I've played WOV for 5 years straight and always loved it... something new every week to try and it just doen't get old! On the other hand the one thing I think the game lacks is immersiveness. It would be kind of neat to have scripted voices of "SF guys on the ground calling in willie pete to mark a target, or yelling out coordinates to you, or you wingman talking to you while forming up, etc" I also thought it would be cool to have scripted voices from guys on the ground telling you your right on F'ing target or helping you walk bombs in on your target! I think it would be something easy to do and I"m playing around with new voice clips. I'm just tired of the usual Red Crown and VERY VERY basic responses from my wingman. Any ideas guys?

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The response & radio chatter ques are essentially hard-coded, though one can always substitute what ever one wants (message-wise).

 

There are also messages in the speech folder that one never hears, evidently placed there by TK with future expansion in mind.

 

There's a whole thread on this in SimHQ's archives, from at least two years ago.

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I would like to be able to order my flight to hit specific targets it does not have to be the primary target, but, at least be able to try and clear the way to the primary for me and wingie. Just a thought :biggrin:

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I would like to see the red fighters operating under tight ground control. I would also love to see reloadable SAM's and an integrated Air Defence Network.

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I would like to see the red fighters operating under tight ground control. I would also love to see reloadable SAM's and an integrated Air Defence Network.

 

It's easy to integrate air defenses. Simply network the larger anti-aircraft guns (which would be radar-directed in real life, anyway). I've networked every gun from 57mm and up, and it makes for a nasty experience. You can even use one of the available radar models as an analog for a SON-7 or 9, and include it in the network (until a SON-9 model becomes available).

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I would love to hear more background radio traffic like in Falcon4,I think it realy added to overfly a land battle and be able to hear the radio traffic from the land war,and near by air battles.

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Q. What do you think the series lacks?

 

A. The Blackburn Buccaneer.

 

Not much else, I'm loving the core games and the brilliant add-on stuff done by the community.

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Two things I can think of that might add to the realism:

 

1. It seems to me that the damage done by a mere 1 or 2 rounds of 20mm or 30mm cannon fire, not to mention the .50 cal guns in the earlier jets is a bit out of proportion. Granted, a lot depends on where your rounds hit and the sturdiness (or lack thereof) of the target aircraft, but I've seen Phantoms come back with quite a bit of damage, i.e. hit by several rounds from a ZSU-23 and a guy in my squadron had a huge hole where a 37mm hit right in front of the canopy. An Israeli F-15 pilot brought his bird back and landed with only a stub left of his right wing. Yet, I seem to get kills with only 1 round hitting the bogey...that seems a bit too easy.

 

2. I would love to have new voice comm. In my two years in combat in 'Nam no one ever said, "I see them" in a dogfight. The terms were "Visual" which means I have my lead or a friendly a/c in sight, "Tally" means I have your bogey in sight, and "No Joy" means I don't see the subject of the call, friendly or hostile. The term for being out of ammo is "Winchester" not. "I'm out of gun ammo."

 

Also, no one ever called out, "I'm taking damage" or "I can't shake him" in a quavering voice. Fighter pilots pride themselves on staying cool, even when the feces is hitting the rotating impeller - no one I ever flew with would be caught dead saying the things I've mentioned. I personally heard one of my squadron mates getting ready to eject from a burning F-4D over N. Vietnam, facing possible death and almost certain capture, say quite calmly, "Okay, we're outta here" before pulling the handle. (Note: They both made it back after the release of our POWs in 1973.)

 

I heard a story involving a flight of four F-100's making a strike in Route Pack 1 in 1966 or 1967. Ground fire was very heavy and number four, who was last on the target, pulled out screaming over the radio, "I'm hit, I'm hit, I'm hit." Lead comes back over the radio and says, rather laconically , "Shut up, Four, and die like a man." I'm not saying it's true, but it could have been given the way guys really talked on the radio.

 

Just some thoughts...

 

Wagsled

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Two things I can think of that might add to the realism:

 

2. I would love to have new voice comm. In my two years in combat in 'Nam no one ever said, "I see them" in a dogfight. The terms were "Visual" which means I have my lead or a friendly a/c in sight, "Tally" means I have your bogey in sight, and "No Joy" means I don't see the subject of the call, friendly or hostile. The term for being out of ammo is "Winchester" not. "I'm out of gun ammo."

 

Also, no one ever called out, "I'm taking damage" or "I can't shake him" in a quavering voice. Fighter pilots pride themselves on staying cool, even when the feces is hitting the rotating impeller - no one I ever flew with would be caught dead saying the things I've mentioned. I personally heard one of my squadron mates getting ready to eject from a burning F-4D over N. Vietnam, facing possible death and almost certain capture, say quite calmly, "Okay, we're outta here" before pulling the handle. (Note: They both made it back after the release of our POWs in 1973.)

 

I heard a story involving a flight of four F-100's making a strike in Route Pack 1 in 1966 or 1967. Ground fire was very heavy and number four, who was last on the target, pulled out screaming over the radio, "I'm hit, I'm hit, I'm hit." Lead comes back over the radio and says, rather laconically , "Shut up, Four, and die like a man." I'm not saying it's true, but it could have been given the way guys really talked on the radio.

 

Just some thoughts...

 

Wagsled

 

Little things like that are what I'm talking about. Do you guys know if it would be possible to find a .wav file for instance where the pilot talks about breaks, merges, calling out angel's for bandits, ATC, etc.... and past those over the stock sounds? I'm trying at the moment, so i'll let you all know how that pans out.

 

Thanks for the above links, I really appreciate that.

 

This makes for an interesting thread... neat hearing other peoples ideas.

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Guest pfunkmusik
I heard a story involving a flight of four F-100's making a strike in Route Pack 1 in 1966 or 1967. Ground fire was very heavy and number four, who was last on the target, pulled out screaming over the radio, "I'm hit, I'm hit, I'm hit." Lead comes back over the radio and says, rather laconically , "Shut up, Four, and die like a man." I'm not saying it's true, but it could have been given the way guys really talked on the radio.

 

Just some thoughts...

 

Wagsled

 

I would have to say, no. My father spent 20 years as Navy aircrew. Served two tours as a doorgunner and crew chief on Sea Kings. There's not a man he ever served with that was lost that he didn't mourn.

 

I should know. I was named after one of them.

 

pfunk

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I would have to say, no. My father spent 20 years as Navy aircrew. Served two tours as a doorgunner and crew chief on Sea Kings. There's not a man he ever served with that was lost that he didn't mourn.

 

I should know. I was named after one of them.

 

pfunk

 

 

Sorry, pfunk, I think you may have missed the point. We did (and still do) mourn and miss all the comrades we lost. What I was referring to was the radio call #4 made and the panic it showed. If the story is true and number four did punch out, trust me, we would move heaven and earth to get him back.

 

I apologize if I gave you the wrong impression.

 

Wagsled

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well, ya know, if you got a mic, you can always record yourself, or friends, and use that to replace .wav speech files. I agree, I never really was fond of the speech files that came with this sim. I thought they weren't very true to the bearing and discipline that I know of in the military, and to the realness of the situtations.

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AWACS.

and sack Red Crown

 

Which would make perfect sense as most of the stock campaigns take place before 1977. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Yeah, ok. There were some aircraft (E-2 or even the EC-121) before 1977 that served in a similar function as the E-3, which was introduced in 1977. But I don't think that TK wants to specify what kind of airborne warning & control equipment (if any) each nation has available. Thus I do think that the ground- (or ship-) based controller (aka Red Crown) is more representative than an AWACS.

 

Nothing wrong with Red Crown in WOV, just the female voice (I can't believe I'm saying this) is out of place there.

 

Since this is make a wish thread:

- Make the AI use smart weapons properly.

I don't consider the fact that they can't do this to be a major problem, but it would be nice if they could. :wink:

Edited by Gocad

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This one

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=3369

 

or this one

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=1878

 

I can't recall which one i downloaded a long time ago. Not exactly what you're asking for, but it helps.

 

...Oh, these are just cool.

The windloop should really help.

gonna check it out, now.

 

thanks

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in reference to the question about hearing guys on the ground, Only the FAC can hear them right?

I mean I know what kind of radios we have on the 15, I just dont know what the ground guys use.

 

I have heard that elsewhere too.

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Which would make perfect sense as most of the stock campaigns take place before 1977. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Yeah, ok. There were some aircraft (E-2 or even the EC-121) before 1977 that served in a similar function as the E-3, which was introduced in 1977. But I don't think that TK wants to specify what kind of airborne warning & control equipment (if any) each nation has available. Thus I do think that the ground- (or ship-) based controller (aka Red Crown) is more representative than an AWACS.

 

Nothing wrong with Red Crown in WOV, just the female voice (I can't believe I'm saying this) is out of place there.

 

Since this is make a wish thread:

- Make the AI use smart weapons properly.

I don't consider the fact that they can't do this to be a major problem, but it would be nice if they could. :wink:

 

Well Ill concede to you on that one only thing is all my campaigns are post 1991.

So hence my thoughts are inclined toward an AWACS.Heck Novalogic had one.

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well, ya know, if you got a mic, you can always record yourself, or friends, and use that to replace .wav speech files. I agree, I never really was fond of the speech files that came with this sim. I thought they weren't very true to the bearing and discipline that I know of in the military, and to the realness of the situtations.

 

I actually went out on a solo flight and recorded most of the voice comms in the game (using proper brevity codes)...I figured it would sound okay with the jet noise, oxygen mask, and even under G (simulate going defensive).

 

Mostly, I just sounded like a dork.

 

Someone else with a better voice needs to do that...

 

FastCargo

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-Use of smart weapons from AI in every kind of mission

-Better briefing screen with in the least position of known SAMs sites (Not even in Acecombat you go with the poor level of information you get in this series.

-Wingmen's improved targeting orders (they should go after the primary targets too, as in real life.; TK thinks that the player must "focus" himself on primary. Perhaps he will change his mind)

-some radio call changed; (instead of 5o'clock, indicsation od bearing and distance)

 

Secondary:

A-A refueling

Populated aircraft carrier's deck model.

A mission editor, with a graphic interface and easier to use

and

 

LAST but not LEAST

A crashlog, for CTDS.*******

 

Those "ideas" range from quite difficult quite easy to implement IMHO. I had a few "direct" exchange of ideas with TK on his forum on this matters.

Requesting and suggesting all of them togheter perhaps is a bit too much, but maybe some of them?, especially considering that some are specific TK's choices, while others are complicated programming routines that might require a lot of testing, and TK is apparently on limited funds.

One solution would be for TK to sell his SDK, like Microsfot does, starting a trend of improving and modding like MS FS. But again there are obviously implication of higher level behind, of financial kind, or maybe of copyrights, or maybe just TK does not want for his own personal, understandable reasons.

Wha happens is that it is sad that in 2008 the Flight Sim scene is basically a desert with very few titles, some of them remakes of sims of the late 90s such as Falcon4 in his new patches.Truth of the matter., Back in the JAne's era we would have not accepted anything like SFP, simply the competition level was too high. Perhaps this very same higher and higher stake of complication of hard-core flight sim decided the death of this genre, with the programming-flop of Falcon4. On the other hand the moddability and the ease of play of this series made it a winner in this "Combat Flight Sim Middle Age". It is fast, playabel and fun , and I can add the very plane I like with the very skin I like, in every terrain I like, (which I can quickly mod if I really want too) Brilliant. In evey middleage there are the embryos of renaissance.

On the other hand the WOI choice that TK made left me puzzled. Would have been better IMHO a BIG pay patch with added featurea and characteristic instead of known scenario with known planes. Some solution like the airbase population thoguh are full of potentioal indeed

Edited by Canadair

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-Wingmen's improved targeting orders (they should go after the primary targets too, as in real life.; TK thinks that the player must "focus" himself on primary. Perhaps he will change his mind)

 

What's the point of playing a mission where there is actually no need to achieve anything? Besides, you can already order your wingman to destroy the primary target using the 'attack my target' order. 

It's also possible that other flight groups are assigned to attack 'your' primary target as well. Bear in mind that it's a 'lite' sim, which apparently also means no micro-management of your flight group. :wink:

Furthermore I would say that some requests here have already been shot down by TK. Personally I would not  expect a TW game (at least not one using the current engine) that would focus on air combat (A-A or A-G) after 1990...and to be honest I don't have a problem with that.

 

I shut up now.

Edited by Gocad

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I actually went out on a solo flight and recorded most of the voice comms in the game (using proper brevity codes)...I figured it would sound okay with the jet noise, oxygen mask, and even under G (simulate going defensive).

 

Mostly, I just sounded like a dork.

 

Someone else with a better voice needs to do that...

 

FastCargo

 

C'mon put it up;lets hear it anyway.

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What's the point of playing a mission where there is actually no need to achieve anything? Besides, you can already order your wingman to destroy the primary target using the 'attack my target' order.

It's also possible that other flight groups are assigned to attack 'your' primary target as well. Bear in mind that it's a 'lite' sim, which apparently also means no micro-management of your flight group. :wink:

Furthermore I would say that some requests here have already been shot down by TK. Personally I would not expect a TW game (at least not one using the current engine) that would focus on air combat (A-A or A-G) after 1990...and to be honest I don't have a problem with that.

 

I shut up now.

 

Of course I know I can send my wingman to attack primary. Point is that, as someone else stated in this very thread, 3 and 4 will go all over the place, performing SEAD. It is true that at times there are other flights performing attacks on the same target, which is good and realistic.

Still would be nice to have the option of more managing of my flight group; maybe 3 and 4 can ataack and I will perform SEAD or Cover? yes I know there are escort and sweep flights, but still, I guess we would all agree that the more managing option the better.

One point is IMHO also that this SIM is not really "lite". Better, it is called "lite" when some "unrealistic or inadequate" situations show up, (and some of them are really only one step up, or down, from ACEcomabat) but rightly so, it is called "not-lite" when discussing flihgt modelling, or loadout options, or AA-networking, or some weapon modeling characteistcs.

So "lite" or "not-Lite"? I think we should decide, and so should TK. As for now the game is in a limbo in between two worlds. A few steps up from Ace-combat, and some steps down from Falcon4.

Most likely TK will pick "lite" since this is what sells in a fast-gratification world. (sigh) I am led to think that everyone that plays SF seiries is aviation and sim -skilled like people on this forum. Probably I am wrong, , the average user does not mod, does not read aviation history, does not care about realism, but he can't or won't play Acecombat because it is too childish and his son is playing Acecombat on the playstation in the next room.

I 'd like it to go up a few steps towards higher level of simming, but again it is MHO. Still perhaps this -between two worlds- situation is probably fun since we are all playing this game afer so many years after all, and in this community we are alla viation entuasist and we crank the SF series to the highest realsim possible with the various mods. Still one hits the "wall" and wonders what this could be, with a little effort.

Not to mention the god graphics on older system etc. But we all know the good points otherwise we won't be here at all.

The idea is having a feedback from the community to TK, without being scared of thinking and asking. I did not understand many of choices until he clearly stated that many are just a budget problem. He simply does not have the money to fund a bigger operation. Supporting him, especially in this sim-middleage is the only way to go to a renaissance. But I think that we should "push the envelope".

Edited by Canadair

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But I think that we should "push the envelope".

 

....and having modded and flown this sim series since 2002, beta tested etc etc etc......here is what I learned, when TK does make his mind up, that is final. We can rant, rave, speculate, etc etc etc until we are blue in the face. Bottom line, it is what it is. Having said that, calling this one step from Ace Combat is not even close to being a true statement. I am not sure what sim you have been playing but mine is not like that at all. I hate threads like these because they always turn into a giant bitch session. Irritating at best. Makes me wonder why people would even fly it if they have so many gripes about it.

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