Do you think military service should be mandatory?

[+Julhelm 266]

Mandatory service is bulls**t because we all know there are certain elements of society who never have to put their asses on the line because they have the money to throw around.

[serverandenforcer 33]

Mandatory service is bulls**t because we all know there are certain elements of society who never have to put their asses on the line because they have the money to throw around.

 

Mandatory service or not, you will still have that problem no matter what. So I don't think that is even something to consider. But I'm not in favor of mandatory services anyways. I still like my idea.

Edited August 17, 2009 by serverandenforcer

[eraser_tr 29]

Mandatory service is bulls**t because we all know there are certain elements of society who never have to put their asses on the line because they have the money to throw around.

 

Ah but if it doesn't have to be military service, their ass may not be put on the line, but they'd still have to do work to help others and the country. It'd be a nice smack in the face of reality for people with the means to do alot to help, but don't.

[Nesher 628]

BTW! you should mention where you live (in case it's not written in your information near your user name)

 

and one more thing, in Israel there is another way to serve without joining the IDF, it's called "national service"

usualy religious girls that "can't" join the IDF...

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

My answer is YES. It doesn't take two years to train an Infantryman,Scout, or Tanker. Two years, go chuck some grenades in a foreign land then people will really start to appreciate what they have as citizens.

[+Typhoid 231]

only during a declared war

[Nathan 0]

Hi all ,

Well in the UK not that long ago we had Nation Service which in any other words was conscription . As to wether national service is a good thing i not really sure . Im an ex serviceman myself and did eight years in the Royal Air Force , good times and some bad times . Everyone i worked with joined on their own accord as national service stopped way before my time , so everyone made that choice , not to say some still moaned about being there . I think its nice to have a choice , but as has been said freedom comes at a cost . A cost most people in the UK have no idea of , but im not so sure that compulsary service is a good thing . Some people are not ment for military service , not to say they are any less a person not at all we all have talents and uses . However if push comes to shove and there was a major war like WW2 it may be needed , lets just hope that never happens . Theres already enough tragic loss of life of our service men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan . So i dont know , i can understand some where like Isreal haveing nation service as their country is surrounded by enemies and has had to fight many a war in the past out numbered but still won every time , so maybe there is the answer it works for Isreal and many other countries that know conflict around their borders . So maybe conscription or national service or what ever yo want to call it , has it uses in times of troubles but in more peaceful times is not needed .

 

wow ive muttered alot and not really said anything !!! sorry

Nathan

[Vigilant 1]

My answer is YES. It doesn't take two years to train an Infantryman,Scout, or Tanker. Two years, go chuck some grenades in a foreign land then people will really start to appreciate what they have as citizens.

 

Depends on your definition of "trained". Back in the time of communism and the peoples army it really didn't take 2 years to train a tanker. But it was an army based on soviet doctrine of "Nas Mnogo" and belief that statisticaly, tank has durability of 4 minutes in combat... Make you own conclusions.

[OvS 8]

only during a declared war

 

 

We declared war on Terrorism... then let the draft begin! Give the Troops serving 3rd and 4th tours a well needed break.

[eraser_tr 29]

We declared war on Terrorism... then let the draft begin! Give the Troops serving 3rd and 4th tours a well needed break.

 

Nope, now they're "Overseas Counter-Insurgency Operations" or some s**t like that

[{TNT}11bravo10 0]

yes I think we should have a mandatory enlistment then after your enlistment is done give a choice weather to stay in or go. just my thoughts on it

[+Old Diego 66]

Right to vote granted after national service? WTF?! So now we're going to amend amendments to the Constitution? Sometimes I really wonder why I risked my ass on the Fulda Gap.

 

Mandatory paid military service? No.

Mandatory paid civil or military service? Yes. Two years minimum to be served before or after university.

[+331Killerbee 840]

My view on this Subject is very skewed. I retired from Active Duty after 20 Years. Followed by 15 more working for the Federal Goverment.

 

When I was 18 and entered Parris Island, The Draft was still going on. For those that are in favor of a Draft, Let Me remind Yall' how it was. From Ages 18 to 35 had to register. You received a Draft Card in the Mail with Your Draft Number and the Location of where and when to Report. Many did not want to go because it was a unpopular War. The majority went. But there were those that made the Exodus to Canada or Mexico after burning their Cards. Enlistment was 2 Years manditory. 12 Months in a Combat Zone and can not be extended more than 13 Months by Contract.

 

My Crazy Butt Enlisted.......I Volunteered before My Number was Called. Also, My Father was killed over there and I wanted to go. But I didn't.

 

Many of My fellow StaffNCO's commented toward Our Retirments how each Service had changed for the better because of Our "All Volunteer Services". The Quality of the basic Person entering Military Service was more physically fit. More Educated. And most important of all, They wanted to be there. A far cry difference from when We first Joined. However it was done.

 

 

But.....I am not in favor of any Manditory Service Obligation what so ever. Freedom to choose is the overiding Factor. Freedom to Choose. Freedom overall is the Foundation Principle of Our Military......It says in in our Oath.....To defend Freedom and uphold the Consistution. So help Us......The more Our Freedoms are taken away.....The More it dimenishes Our Cause........Which is the Defenders of Freedom.....

 

So I'd rather have a system where Individuals have the Freedom to choose whether or not to Enlist into Military Service......Or Say what they want. Protest what they want. Work at the Job they want. Marry who they want. Dress the way they want......

 

I might not agree with it..........But I'd be more than glad to offer My Life for it. Hell, I'd "Volunteer" for it........

 

 

That's Defending Freedom and to make it so that Others may have it........

 

 

 

Just My 2 Pennys....

 

 

331KillerBee

[Uhu 2]

Hello!

 

What I'm somehow missing in this discussion, is a clear statement of those in favor of a mandatory military service about the role of women - especially if the right to vote is linked to a military service, I think that there is no real way to avoid (gender and health based) discriminations.

 

My personal opinion as a german citizen on that subject is that specially a military service should be everything else than mandatory - for me, my life is much too precious to be risked in military service, I can't see the profit of being patriotic (apart from getting some recognition, but this can be achieved by other less dangerous ways).

On the other hand, I can be friend with the idea of a service else than in the military branch (someone put examples like law enforcement, firefighting, in Germany, we've got institutions like the German Federal Agency for Technical Relief [THW: Bundesanstalt Technisches Hilfswerk] and the Zivildienst), but these services shall not be mandatory too, "solely" providing some advantages like getting faster a college/university place, diverse financial advantages or other things in the same manner, when the legislative needs to make some appeal for them. A state may have the right to ask for some duties and rewarding those taking them but must not make any services mandatory as the state is paid for his duties himself by raising taxes

If services are voluntary, discriminations should be easier avoided, I think, because services are coupled with "official appeal" but you still have the right to choose to not serve.

 

I'm respecting people who choose to support a (democratic) state by their enlisting in its armed forces, thinking that they must get the best support available (as every employee shall get from the employer). But there is no way for me that a state have the power to intentionally endanger the life of people in mandatory services that are not for the benefit of the human species. Firefighting or law enforcement, admittedly being somewhat dangerous, are behaviours either for saving lives, something that can be assumed as being innate, or for the profit of a peaceful and quite safe society, where the military is "only" there to fight out conflicts with other people, conflicts resulting from the also innate fear of the otherness and not really serving the aim of saving lives and goods or making a good society - no one can convince me that communism or any other ideologies are true threats to that must be imperatively be fought in the way to avoid the doom of mankind, thus making a military service truly mandatory. Humans are diversified enough in mind and abilities to have enough persons willing to defend their own stand (and by the way the stand of fellow citizens) in the life when threats to it like the current islamic terrorism are presenting themselves.

 

I do not deny that military has some kind of fascination due to the technologies involved and some things stirring archaic instincts, like the power and sound of jet planes, tanks, explosions and firearms, kind of fascination that I am subjected for too (see my liking for combat flight simulations and I'm really enthusiastic about visiting airshows). So, I do not have anything against military, apart from mandatory services, and I am not against using brute force for fighting / solving conflicts in our breed, thinking there is no way to avoid it as some level of violence can be expected to be inherent in our biological species (look at our "relative", the common chimpanzee, where the males and sometimes even females are also truly fighting wars against other chimp hordes in neighboring forest regions, wars seeking the destruction of those hordes). But I will stress again, as finishing sentence, that making military service mandatory is an absolute no-go for me.

 

Greets, Uhu

 

PS. I hope that I did not make too much language errors, my wife always say that I speaking english with english vocabulary but using a mixture of french and german grammar, seen that I speek these at mothertongue level... I apologize for any error occured.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

We declared war on Terrorism... then let the draft begin! Give the Troops serving 3rd and 4th tours a well needed break.

 

You guys declared war on drugs too... but I don't see troops on the streets for that. Heh, k, I'll stop being juvenile now. :yes:

 

Personally, I don't think mandatory service is a good idea. Any time you have a mandatory obligation for something, you always have large numbers of people who don't want to be there and maintain something akin to a half arse attitude. Consequently, the the quality, professionalism and morale of your people wane significantly. I just think you'd find yourself in a far more advantageous position if you enticed people to the services with improved rewards schemes or used national service models similar to what Sweden and Finland use, rather than restricting rights and saying "you get them back, if you do this for us."

[{TNT}11bravo10 0]

maybe I should give a lil background I am no longer in the military I joined at 17 by choice went to Active Duty had 6 years honorable as a Infantryman. Then was made to med retire. I did 1 six month deployment with the 10th mtn. DIV. at the Invasion of Afghanistan . I will tell ya from other vets I see at the VA Vietnam was a lil worse in my opinion. now back to me I had 1 hell of a time in my 1st combat deployment trust me I always think about it but before that I thought that the military was a cake walk. boy was I wrong basically what I am getting at besides rambling on is if Military service was mandatory then people would see how precious life is and may make them think wow I was stupid. but thats a lil far fetched but it will make a person see what they have. and yes I have probs looking for the words to say when I think

[{TNT}11bravo10 0]

for those who are groundpound junkies here is a link I found I like it go figure I am Infantry just not in uniform anymore http://104infdiv.org/TRIBUTE.HTM

[serverandenforcer 33]

First off, the military isn't solely focused on war. There is a term used in the US armed forces called mootw (military operations other than war). Esentially, this means that the military participates in operations that do not involve combat or deployments to areas of conflict. What I'm proposing is that when you enlist, you can have a choice to be in the military solely for mootw and nothing war or combat oriented. You duties would strictly be on humanitarian services, providing relief to a crisis area such as the aftermath of hurricane Katrina or responding to the results of a tsunami caused by a large earthquake.

 

Second. In the US, our current rights and freedoms are already being slowly taken away. So the assault on our freedoms is already underway and presenting a method in which an individual can re-obtain them might not be a bad idea. Hell, perhaps having all of these roghts handed to us without doing something for them wasn't a good idea anyway. It has established the status quo. We had it all without cinsequence, so why bother try any harder? That's the mindset of a spoiled brat, and too many Americans are spoiled brats. Infact, most really don't give a damn with the fact that certain rights are being taken away. The majority of the ones (not all) who do care have put boot to ass for uncle sam, but nobody is really putting any effort to listen to those folks. So maybe I am really onto something here, and the fact that it will cause one to put effort to exceed the status quo makes it sound rediculous. If you're comforetable with hand-outs, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. If you don't think what you have, and what you are a part of is worth a few years of volluntary service, then perhaps you really don't deserve all that you have.

[Caesar 305]

I have to agree with 331KB; I don't think its right to take away people's freedom of choice. I joined up because it's what I wanted to do, but it's not right for everyone, and we exist on the idea of a free society (the Right to Life, Liberty and the Persuit of Happieness) - forcing people into military service (outide of a massive war effort like WWI, II, Vietnam) removes some of that freedom.

 

A good quote: "I detest what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." I don't like plenty of what goes on in our country, but many of those things are covered by the rights and freedoms we believe in. People may protest us, or other people, hold different opinions and be vocal about them, call me wrong because I don't drink their cool-aid, and it may piss me off, but that doesn't affect the fact that I believe they have the right to make their opinions and choices as they will.

 

I think people ought to be exposed to military service, to play their role in our national defense and to help uphold those freedoms, but I would also go to my grave in this service so that they have the ability, the freedom to chooseto do so, or not to.

[{TNT}11bravo10 0]

dont get me wrong I loved serving in the Army and would do it again unfortunately I cant anymore. but I still say everyone should serve not just in combat hell I wouldn't recommend any one do that thats why I was retired. but just to see and understand who we are. Here is a pic I like maybe you all will to. dont go with topic well maybe a lil if it affends anyone let me know and I will remove it

Edited August 18, 2009 by {TNT}11bravo10

[macelena 1,070]

Here in Spain, conscripts weren´t ever deployed, unless volunteered for it, and

when mandatory military service was suspended, the budget got free of the cost of keeping

such amount of troops, so we could pay improvements in equipment, increase drilling, etc. It is

assumed that it takes 1-2 years to train a rifleman to optimal standards. And last but not least,

military service won´t affect the life of civilians.

 

On the other hand, military service was seen not only as a way to serve the country, but the

last step to become an adult man. It is an spread opinion that generations (like mine) wich didn´t

serve lack maturity. Also, conscripts could be useful in support, rear units. In the end, we cannot

afford to deploy many troops outside given that we must keep troops here to prevent trouble with

unconfortable neighbours

[+Muesli 2,161]

Without thinking of a tour of duty abroad in a warzone,

the military is able to give a lot of arrogant youth a lesson

in respect, humility and obedience. Especially since it is

commonplace for teenagers to attack parents and others in

any way possible without taking any consequences whatsoever.

It turns boys into men, as it did with me.

[+Dave 2,322]

Hello!

 

What I'm somehow missing in this discussion, is a clear statement of those in favor of a mandatory military service about the role of women - especially if the right to vote is linked to a military service, I think that there is no real way to avoid (gender and health based) discriminations.

 

My personal opinion as a german citizen on that subject is that specially a military service should be everything else than mandatory - for me, my life is much too precious to be risked in military service, I can't see the profit of being patriotic (apart from getting some recognition, but this can be achieved by other less dangerous ways).

On the other hand, I can be friend with the idea of a service else than in the military branch (someone put examples like law enforcement, firefighting, in Germany, we've got institutions like the German Federal Agency for Technical Relief [THW: Bundesanstalt Technisches Hilfswerk] and the Zivildienst), but these services shall not be mandatory too, "solely" providing some advantages like getting faster a college/university place, diverse financial advantages or other things in the same manner, when the legislative needs to make some appeal for them. A state may have the right to ask for some duties and rewarding those taking them but must not make any services mandatory as the state is paid for his duties himself by raising taxes

If services are voluntary, discriminations should be easier avoided, I think, because services are coupled with "official appeal" but you still have the right to choose to not serve.

 

I'm respecting people who choose to support a (democratic) state by their enlisting in its armed forces, thinking that they must get the best support available (as every employee shall get from the employer). But there is no way for me that a state have the power to intentionally endanger the life of people in mandatory services that are not for the benefit of the human species. Firefighting or law enforcement, admittedly being somewhat dangerous, are behaviours either for saving lives, something that can be assumed as being innate, or for the profit of a peaceful and quite safe society, where the military is "only" there to fight out conflicts with other people, conflicts resulting from the also innate fear of the otherness and not really serving the aim of saving lives and goods or making a good society - no one can convince me that communism or any other ideologies are true threats to that must be imperatively be fought in the way to avoid the doom of mankind, thus making a military service truly mandatory. Humans are diversified enough in mind and abilities to have enough persons willing to defend their own stand (and by the way the stand of fellow citizens) in the life when threats to it like the current islamic terrorism are presenting themselves.

 

I do not deny that military has some kind of fascination due to the technologies involved and some things stirring archaic instincts, like the power and sound of jet planes, tanks, explosions and firearms, kind of fascination that I am subjected for too (see my liking for combat flight simulations and I'm really enthusiastic about visiting airshows). So, I do not have anything against military, apart from mandatory services, and I am not against using brute force for fighting / solving conflicts in our breed, thinking there is no way to avoid it as some level of violence can be expected to be inherent in our biological species (look at our "relative", the common chimpanzee, where the males and sometimes even females are also truly fighting wars against other chimp hordes in neighboring forest regions, wars seeking the destruction of those hordes). But I will stress again, as finishing sentence, that making military service mandatory is an absolute no-go for me.

 

Ah so we military are just monkey's that like to see things get blown up?

 

my life is much too precious to be risked in military service

 

So as long as someone else does it, then you don't have to. Why does the word....hmm what word am I thinking of? Oh yeah that's it.

[JediMaster 451]

Can you honestly blame someone living in Germany for having that attitude after their recent history?

 

As my German history professor in college said 15 years ago "my generation of Germans are the most boring people you can imagine thanks to the guilt we feel for what our parents allowed to happen."

[OvS 8]

my life is much too precious to be risked in military service

 

 

You're joking right? No human is more precious than the human standing next to them, whether in a grocery line, or the line of fire. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever chose my own life over seeing the the freedoms that my fellow citizens enjoyed stripped from them because I was selfish ... even as a parent of a child I would... just to make sure my kid can see the sunshine and smell the flowers from the safety of a free nation.

 

I still say mandatory. As has alreadt been stated... the military isn't all about wars. There are some very positive training opportunities, College tuition opportunities, and growth possibilities for some that may never have that chance otherwise. I'd rather see my tax dollars spent on a person that could possibliy become a success of the community, rather than a product of it.

 

OvS