Iran-Iraq war

[+MigBuster]

The book mentions MiG-21MFs using the Matras

 

It also states from 1960 there were 120 Indian IPs giving training to Iraqi MiG-21 pilots

[3-A-305]

The book mentions MiG-21MFs using the Matras

Ups....you are right......

I will try to ask on Acig.org to see if we can clarify this matter......

About the indian instructors, here is a good reading on the subject, if anyone is interested....

 

http://www.bharat-ra...kumar-Iraq.html

Edited March 3, 2013 by 3-A-305

[Centurion-1]

Nice read! It didn't seem like the Iraqis got a very long training before being sent to the frontlines, but that is to be expected I guess.

 

I am unsure as to wether I should incorporate the MiG-21F-13s or F-7s into the campaign, as far as I can tell they were not used in combat in the Iran-Iraq war, what do you guys think?

[3-A-305]

That is the problem on training during war time. You need to get the skills needed to put you in the front and that's it. On peace time you train to get as good as you can get....BIG difference.

 

If there is no war operations, all squads kind of become "training units".

 

About our specific subject...

I guess, having new Mig-25/Su-20/Mirage F1 to fly , F-13 and F-7 wont be missed so much....

I remember to read something about a squad (think it was the 7th but not sure) armed on the hurry with old versions of Mig-21 (PFM,FL,F-13,F) to be flown until they "run out of hours". I Don't think they are too much needed for the initial release....But that's only my opinion........

[+paulopanz]

For the MiG-21MF check out Marcelo´s Skins!

They are pretty nice...

 

Carlo, if You look up You will see old Marcelo's skins just resized, upgraded, fixed, restored and repainted

 

@ Centurion - The white H-6D with C-601 Missiles is in Spillone & my H-6 pack and don't forget my Hunters please ....

Edited March 3, 2013 by paulopanz

[+MigBuster]

Nice read! It didn't seem like the Iraqis got a very long training before being sent to the frontlines, but that is to be expected I guess.

 

I am unsure as to wether I should incorporate the MiG-21F-13s or F-7s into the campaign, as far as I can tell they were not used in combat in the Iran-Iraq war, what do you guys think?

 

The book claims:

Soviets deployed some MiG-21bis early in the war (no dates given) and fought A-A

 

Iraq were desperate for quantity at his point it states - so:

1983 40 x F-7Bs were received from china via Egypt/Saudi and used in service to 2003 (Export J-7II Yefims book mentions Matra capable - although not sure if Iraq put any on)

 

They also received 40 x J-6s but these were relegated to training only in 1984

 

Book states - Soviets supplied 25 x MiG-21bis in Feb 1983 in response to China deal - but only with R-13s - a second batch was supplied with R-60s - but it states they were by now considered second line assets

[Viggen]

I would include the F-7s and the old MiG-21 variant squadrons simply so we have more targets. Just my $0.02.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Viggen

[+EricJ]

Or more correctly, target practice...

[+paulopanz]

IrAF Hunters

 

from Cooper & Bishop in their IRAN-IRAQ war in the air 1980-88 - shiffer 2000

 

1 RCN Squadron Mig-25RB/Hunter FR.10 H3/Hal Walid (8)

 

4 Squadron Hunter 59 Kirkuk/Al-Huriya (12)

 

702 Squadron Hunter 59 Mousel/Al-Huriya (12)

 

They were certainly used in first stages of the war in bombing and strafing IRAN bases. As the book stated.

 

OOB at ACIG.org dont report them, but include only an OCU unit.

 

I think that they could be added to the camp.

 

We have both FR.10 and Mk.59 (in weathered skin of course)

[+Soulfreak]

Paulo, could you send me the MiG-21MF textures pls?

Only the camo without any panel lines, rivets, markings & weathering?

Would like to test something! ;-)

[+paulopanz]

I'm sorry but I can't. I have only new complete skins.

[+Soulfreak]

ah ok, then i´ll do them by myself! ;-9

[3-A-305]

The book mentions MiG-21MFs using the Matras

 

Hi

More "light" on the subject about the Matra Magic and the Mig-21. From Mr.Tom Cooper himself in acig.org , he told us that, the only migs modificated to use the magics were the mig-21bis form 47th Sqd since Autum 1980 "flown to death" by 1984.

 

Also, the AIM-9B form Jordan could be used in any aircraft wired for the R-3S because no modification was required.

[+Gepard]

Yes, Tom Cooper does give them very much credit for their Tu-22 Blinder ops, they fared just as well (or, rather, just as poorly) as the Soviet and East German advisers that also flew the type for Iraq.

 

Dont trust Tom Cooper to much. He wrote some nice articles and a nice book, but he also writes a lot of things which never happend and some BS. The story of East German advisers on Tu-22 is such fake story. The east germans never had bombers, so they never had trained bomber crews. From where they should get their knowledge to fly a Blinder? Its a fake.

[3-A-305]

Nevertheless there are re ports (french sources) from East German pilots flying Tu-22 also in Libya............

Apparently three of them (only one aircraft) were shot down and killed in 1987...

Edited March 6, 2013 by 3-A-305

[+Gepard]

Of course and an east german submarine sunk the Titanic and it was not Nero who burned down Rome but the east german secret service.

 

Do you believe all what you read?

[+daddyairplanes]

sooooo the Stasi invented time travel? (j/k Gepard, i know the EGAF didnt fly bombers. russians were too fraid of em to give em the capability!)

[Centurion-1]

Well, I do not, at this time, have much reason to doubt Coopers research, and he is one of the few sources avaliable for the subject matter. Visavi the downed Libyan Blinder I do not think that he would make such a bold statement if it could not be proved. Regardless, advisors were present and they flew combat sorties for the IrAf. As for who flew what types that is pretty hard to answer without thorough documentation. This article has a picture show the downed Blinders landing gear.

If they found that, what is to say they did not find any bodies? I know the importance of critically assessing sources, thank you, but so far I am not going to throw Coopers research down they toilet because the LSK did not fly bombers.

[+whiteknight06604]

There were alot of East german "advisors" in many countries so it's not beyond the credibility that they could have. Not sure of this exact time but many were involved in many hotspots esp in Africa. They were proxies of the Soviets anyway,I'm sure they were told to supply men and did it. it wasn't some plot by their own goverment.

[morteza1374]

What do you think about this skin for F-4E?

[3-A-305]

Of course and an east german submarine sunk the Titanic and it was not Nero who burned down Rome but the east german secret service.

 

Ok...excelent point......

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

What do you think about this skin for F-4E?

 

Looks good!

 

lets coordinate our stuff so no work is done twice

 

We can create a list about who is building what. That would give us a better overview over this project and about what is still needed.

[+Gepard]

Regardless, advisors were present and they flew combat sorties for the IrAf.

 

No german ones. Soviets may be, but no german pilots.It were only 2 cases when east german pilots were active outside Europe. The first was 1973, when the transfered MiG-21M to Syria and the other was when the transfered MiG-17F to Mosambique in 1980 (or so).

There were no east german pilots in Iraq. But iraqi officers were trained in the GDR. (and by the way iranians too)

[morteza1374]

My friend the tomcat's decals was finished and I'm working n phantoms

[Centurion-1]

That's great. I'm leaving for a vacation tonight, so I'll be gone for a week! See you all when I get back!