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Alexrey

Why do combat sims get such low ratings? :(

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I think its Because there's alot you have to LEARN when you fly, and most just want to get in and wreak havoc. I know quite a few people who have taken the stick and killed a few bandits and then it comes time to land and they go...way too hard.

 

Thats fine by me.

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Do you think it's because of the big learning curve? Just curious.

 

What is average age of the typical gamer? Find that out, and you'll be that much closer to answering your own question :unsure:

 

The learning curve, the action, and planning (and executing) your moves in 3-dimensions....

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No blood, no boobs, no zombies, no amine graphics and no silly elves whit +29 +56 swords. That's too much for today's average game reviewer to handle these days.

 

 

 

Sorry, for harsh language, I had a bad day.

Edited by Mladuna

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Ace Combat = Simple

 

Thirdwire/ Lock on etc. = Too much time and hard to learn ( which is fun to me! Learn from your mistakes!)

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I think most of us are more than just casual gamers. We are either pilots or those wishing we were. That reduces the potential audience by a huge chunk.

 

Wargaming has the same problem. It is a fiercely loyal community but a very small one.

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All these replies are right, I think the biggest has got to be the learning curve the younger crowd wants to get in and shoot em up right away (which includes the game reviewers), they should have people on staff that fly sims or pass that on to sites like these. You cant just jump into a real plane or jet and expect results. It takes time and practice even in the sim world. :biggrin:

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I think most of us are more than just casual gamers. We are either pilots or those wishing we were. That reduces the potential audience by a huge chunk.

 

Wargaming has the same problem. It is a fiercely loyal community but a very small one.

 

And, yes, to answer the original question: Both sims and wargames have fairly steep learning curves. You have to devote a good amount of time before you're even qualified to try to write a review.

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True but it's the way it is unfortunately. Then again it reflects on the amount of people who fly in the real world. Combat aviators are still a minority compared to the civil side it, all around the world too. But since it is a gaming topic, true enough, the vast majority of people I just at work is alot different than from what I used to see, so it's the face of a new generation when it's easier to jump in the action than trying to learn it.

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Do you think it's because of the big learning curve? Just curious.

 

I think those ratings reflect less on the games and more on the people that did the rating.

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Imagine we have here some kidis runing around and do stuff like in CS threads and forums ... pls no! I can life with the low ratings, it garantie that only people with true interest play this game and disscuse it on a level you will never see in CS forums!

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Not to mention thje fact they can't just punch out combat simulations like widgets.

 

Nor, as seems the case, like FPS's. The majority of them are for short attention span folks anyway. They jump in, look around, say "Ooo, shiny," and proceed to blast

the crap out of everything. Once stuck, search for hacks, get bored, rinse and repeat.

 

Most CSimmers I've dealt with over the years are in it for the long haul. Not so easily distracted, and dedicated to getting that nth degree more of precision.

 

This is why the entire PC gaming genre is eroding, and the console is going up. no one wants to invest time in anything with depth...

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Because those doing the reviews are uneducated punks who are mostly interested shooters. Because they are, afterall, selling a magazine, and their readers are mostly kids who are interested in shooters. (Case in point: How may of you actually buy a gaming magazine, or believe the crap they sell in those reviews?) Because a 2 dimentional game is much easier to learn than a 3. Because a lot of guys are interested in instant gratification. You don't get that with a flight sim, you have to learn a lot of things before you even get to fire a shot, then learn a bunch more to make that shot score. We are a rare breed guys. We just have to accept that, and be happy with the fact that we soar above the pack. Does this mean we are 3 dimentional thinkers and they are two? My wingman was won over by something called Rose Online. He says it's the best thing to come out ever and that I should try it. My god, I gag and puke everytime I see it. What a mindless POS! (OK, now after all these "put-downs" and challanges, any chance it'll score me a dogfight? Fat chance of that ever happening. Guess one can only hope.)

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Interesting - back when I last bought a Gaming Mag - probably for the Amiga back in about 1990 the good flight sims like Falcon and Flight of the Intruder at the time were always given briliant reviews and were considered mainstream and cool to have.

Guess combat sims were a new concept back then to most people though.

 

Cant say ive read or taken much notice of gaming reviews since - they are usually based on the persons own opinion - or influenced from on high - so they mean Jack S***.

 

When I was a kid I always went for the game with the best graphics or one that had the best name like Robocop etc - but I was always bored of them in a few weeks - and graphics are meaningless if the game play is crap. However these games are always the most expensive and are guranteed money spinners for the developers so they aint gonna whine.

 

Now ive been playing the SF series since 2003 and am still playing it - so for me this 1 man operation has managed to keep my attention and succeed where all the big software companies have failed badly. It is like the ultimate perfect everlasting game that I wished so many others would be when I was younger.

This only applies to me though - you cant force anyone to like a game (though you can brainwash kids into buying games based on blockbusters )

 

People like what they like!

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Interesting - back when I last bought a Gaming Mag - probably for the Amiga back in about 1990 the good flight sims like Falcon and Flight of the Intruder at the time were always given briliant reviews and were considered mainstream and cool to have.

Guess combat sims were a new concept back then to most people though.

 

Cant say ive read or taken much notice of gaming reviews since - they are usually based on the persons own opinion - or influenced from on high - so they mean Jack S***.

 

When I was a kid I always went for the game with the best graphics or one that had the best name like Robocop etc - but I was always bored of them in a few weeks - and graphics are meaningless if the game play is crap. However these games are always the most expensive and are guranteed money spinners for the developers so they aint gonna whine.

 

Now ive been playing the SF series since 2003 and am still playing it - so for me this 1 man operation has managed to keep my attention and succeed where all the big software companies have failed badly. It is like the ultimate perfect everlasting game that I wished so many others would be when I was younger.

This only applies to me though - you cant force anyone to like a game (though you can brainwash kids into buying games based on blockbusters )

 

People like what they like!

 

Really good point. Sims tend to be much more open ended than most shooters. Even campaigns usually have enough variables that you can play through them again and it's not the feeling you get playing through an FPS again.

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I had my buddy try WOE awhile back. He is into FPS and the 1st thing he says is "I can't fly", so i tell him to just try to let the jet get to 180 knots and gently pull the stick back. Ok we managed to take off now just keep the horizon level, again ok so far, now lets try a turn, he slams the stick full left and wonders why he is rolling instead of turning!!! He crashes and says "see i told you i couldnt fly" and had no desire to try again. Some people just dont get it and are too lazy to try to learn it.

 

Oddly enough, about a week later i sat my Girlfriend down and had her try to fly the A-10, She was able to control the aircraft and circle the field several times until she got a little too low and flew into the ground. "That was fun, much better than those shooting games your always trying to get me to try!"

 

She has been to several Airshows with me and watched me play flight sims for the past 10 years, i've managed to get her interested in aircraft and she loves the sound of a Jet in full afterburner. We both get a huge smile at airshows when the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels perform and she was able to pick up the basics of sim flying just by watching me do it.

 

I guess it takes a certain type of person to work the stick and rudder and unless they are that type they should not be reviewing Flight Sims. :blink:

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Getting the Girlfriend to fly...THATS what I'm talking about. Flying fighters is indeed a minority profession, and to do it as a hobby in the virtual world is probably a rarity too. I think we are in a class by ourselves because it does take patience and practice.

 

Navigation, Geography, History, Geometry.....You MIG cap in Georgia in LOMAC, or lead a flight of 105's to hit Hanoi...Most of the kids today would think..Theres a War in Georgia? Where's Hanoi?

 

Something that most of todays youth fail to see or understand.

 

Oh and to the younger sticks that do fly, you are truly in the minority.

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Navigation, Geography, History, Geometry.....You MIG cap in Georgia in LOMAC, or lead a flight of 105's to hit Hanoi...Most of the kids today would think..Theres a War in Georgia? Where's Hanoi?

 

Something that most of todays youth fail to see or understand.

 

Ahem, I heard that.

 

Navigation: I leave that to flight simulator 2004 and the Cessna 172. Doing lots of VOR and IFR recently.

Geography: Same as above.

History: The fact that I am the only kid in my World History II class that knew anything about WWII may say something.

Geometry: Well, I'm in Algebra :blush:

 

Hanoi? Capital of North Vietnam. Current Capital of Vietnam.

 

War in Georgia? No. Although they did have a peaceful revolution and have been dealing with a false nation in the north of the state.

 

 

I will admit though, I am rather pissed off at my generation.

Edited by JA 37 Viggen

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Bringing up Ace Combat is a good point: that's a game, not a sim. When the majority of people think of fighter jets and dogfights, they think Top Gun; getting within WWI and WWII ranges, and cornering as quickly as those fighters in a modern a/c while doing Mach 1.5; i.e. loading 30G on the airframe thinking it's 9. They criticize sims that try to mimic any reality; take Over G fighters or Aero Elite; certainly not the most in-depth sims, but also not "games" in the sense of AC. They got barbequed because the aircraft felt "sluggish", accelerated "slowly", and had a very hard time evading the latest and greatest generations of missiles. And why were they blowing up after taking a few gun hits? An airplane with even a single 2000 pounder on its racks handles a LOT differently than a clean airplane or an airplane sporting a few sidewinders; I recall "Dewar" Dye explaining that at an airshow before he was killed to a reporter who asked him something to the effect of: "and the plane handles like this even with bombs and missiles, right?" "No, it moves kinda like a pig with bombs on it."

 

But if the mass public, whose only understanding of fighter planes draws from Top Gun, Area 88 and Macross, finds their 9G Viper struggling to hit 4 because it's loaded down with fuel, bombs and missiles, they probably think "double-u tee eff?" They don't find it very fun not to be able to corner at Mach or black out. A simmer ought to review sims, a gamer games, because a gamer is not going to like a sim.

Edited by Caesar

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I will admit though, I am rather pissed off at my generation.

 

 

yep. Same here.

 

I think the reason the TW series gets low ratings is because TW is a SIM, not a game. And those who play it are pilots or want to be pilots, not gamers.

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You've got to have that aviation passion in you to fully appreciate combat flight sims, or any flight sim for that matter.

 

Unless you are truly into something, you certainly won't invest the time to do it properly. Most of my friends will say, yeh that looks cool let's have a go...and after five minutes of wallowing all over the sky they'll get bored and say don't know how you can stand doing that so much.

 

Flightsims are a specialist niche, just like mountain climbing, angling, crafting or any other pastime you could mention.

 

Enjoy these sims, enjoy the graphics, enjoy the history they re-write, enjoy the admiration for the guys & gals who do it for real and those guys who did it way back when, whatever their nationality. There isn't a pilot who doesn't love flying, and minority that get disillusioned loved it once.

 

So, if you read a dodgy review...smile and raise one eyebrow if you can, safe in the knowledge that you'll know more than the mork who wrote that ever will. After all, it's what you think that matters, no-one else !

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I'd say blame Hollywood. I know it sounds a little harsh, but seriously, look at this generation. Every time a dumb actor/actress gets arrested, the media is all over it and analyzes their hand gestures in their trial meticuliously, comming to the conclusion that their left thumb is sore.

 

In a world that worships stars to that extent, basically kids' conceptions on life are through the eyes of a movie camera.

 

This was brought up earlier: kids' conception of flight combat is based on movies like Top Gun and Pearl Harbor. When they see the amount of planning and thinking that it really takes, they're turned off.

 

Go to any action flick today. With such a sort attention span, the only movies that are successful are ones where one minute, the main character is running down a street being chased by a guy with a machine gun on a motorcycle, and the next minute, he's in a helicopter on the other side of the world nuking stuff.

 

Flight simming is just studying to them. When they need to think that hard, they just avoid it.

 

As for F4, that was a different generation. Also targeted to a different age group that would tolerate and enjoy a study sim. Today's sims are still targeted to the same age group, but the ones that are controlling the industry are the kids.

Edited by jtin

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