May 11 updates out now!

[+Julhelm]

I'm just sick of getting fed the same excuses of "no budget" year after year. Especially since other teams seem to manage putting out much nicer terrain visuals without having 9 years worth of back catalog sales to fund their development. Hell, even on our Iphone production we were able to match AAA visuals within a very limited budget (~€100k) and still have tons of content for the character customization system. And this on a game that gets the majority of its revenue from in-app purchases.

 

Or better yet, hire some CFO/PR guy to do all of the community and customer support that sucks valuable development time. You can easily find these people at business schools and universities who LOVE to do that s**t, allowing TK to focus on programming. When all that non-development related stuff is detrimental to the quality of the product (ie cutting out features, getting stuck with last-gen visuals, etc), you're in a downward slope.

 

And I'm talking from the POV of someone who has worked in a small studio in the industry, in a sector far harsher and more competitive than flight sims.

[Murphy'S]

 

I'd really love to see a survey what part of his customers are playing on laptops

 

 

 

I can't imagine there is so much people playing with low end rigs

 

And We must not Forget That tk himself said That his games are taking more and more hardware ressources ( Can be quoted here here, just a matter of finding his word)

Edited May 25, 2011 by Murphy'S

[Murphy'S]

I'm just sick of getting fed the same excuses of "no budget" year after year. Especially since other teams seem to manage putting out much nicer terrain visuals without having 9 years worth of back catalog sales to fund their development. Hell, even on our Iphone production we were able to match AAA visuals within a very limited budget (~€100k) and still have tons of content for the character customization system. And this on a game that gets the majority of its revenue from in-app purchases.

 

Or better yet, hire some CFO/PR guy to do all of the community and customer support that sucks valuable development time. You can easily find these people at business schools and universities who LOVE to do that s**t, allowing TK to focus on programming. When all that non-development related stuff is detrimental to the quality of the product (ie cutting out features, getting stuck with last-gen visuals, etc), you're in a downward slope.

 

And I'm talking from the POV of someone who has worked in a small studio in the industry, in a sector far harsher and more competitive than flight sims.

 

 

I've the strange feeling with this discussion, if continues this way or if it simply continues, That the f-14 game Will be his last game ( if He ever released it)

 

The gap between his policy and some parts of the modders is growing up, and We all know That if they weren't at this point implicated un the game, the series would gave die several years agoo

 

Apart of course if all sf fans are wrong and the game series is really played only by people with vanilla installs, but i really doubt it

Edited May 25, 2011 by Murphy'S

[+daddyairplanes]

I can't imagine there is so much people playing with low end rigs

 

And We must not Forget That tk himself said That his games are taking more and more hardware ressources ( Can be quoted here here, just a matter of finding his word)

 

ummm, i use a Compaq Presario C700 windows vista svc pack 1. straight outta the box since Dec 09. I will get something newer when i go back to the middle east next year but until then..........

 

my original reason for coming back to this thread was to point out that in the new squadronlist.ini there are several new USN units including VF-1, VF-2, VX-4.... wasnt there something mentioned about a SF:Tomcat somewhere down the road?

[+Soulfreak]

Question!

If i got it right, the F-104G now has Drop Tanks inclusive?

Changes with the drop tanks on other Models too? (Mig-21 f.e.)

[malibu43]

I can't imagine there is so much people playing with low end rigs

 

...

 

Well, let's assume for a second that all of TK's users are using intel chipset laptops... As I said on the last page, I was using a 2.2ghz dual core, 1GB RAM laptop with an intel GMA X3100 integrated graphics card up until a month ago. I got the laptop in 2007, so it was an old integrated card. I had no issues running Stary's terrains at medium settings. I could run the stock game at high settings.

 

I would assume that a game developer would want to establish their graphics settings so that low end systems use "low" settings and high end systems use "high" settings. But now low end systems will use "high" settings and for those with high end systems, the game becomes the constraint instead of the equipment. I just don't get it.

 

Oh well. I doubt this discussion will get us anywhere. It's up to TK at this point to decide the direction of the game and it's up to the consumer(s) to determine if the product is worth the price.

 

*Edit* - I've changed my mind. This isn't the end of the world. I will continue supporting TK (as my bank account allows). I also edited my post on the TW boards.

Edited May 26, 2011 by malibu43

[bwild]

Question!

If i got it right, the F-104G now has Drop Tanks inclusive?

Changes with the drop tanks on other Models too? (Mig-21 f.e.)

 

Yes on the Starfighter.

[+Soulfreak]

And others?

[+Brain32]

TK: "And sorry, no, we can not afford to improve our terrain for free patches, we don't have that kind of budget, so you either going to have to take it or leave it. We're doing this for a tiny fraction of budget of the most 90s games"

I honestly do not belive him anymore. Some of you guys make incredible things on your spare time and TK can't even find it in his budget to plant some trees. Claiming he has a smaller budget than some games from the 90s well i just cant believe that.

Many 90's games had a pretty good budget it's just that they didn't have the technology to put out the stuff we see today, so you have no reason not to believe that.

 

As for the other things, it's his business and it worked so far It's just strange about this particular issue that he obviously had to spend time which equals money to reduce and lock out this feature and quite honestly I can't see how did he figure out this would be a good investment

[Guest Pfunk]

http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB3w/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8373&start=24

 

 

Well, again, these fixes were requested by other users here. You may be okay by breaking the game, but most other people are not, and once people start complaining about it more and more here and demanding fixes for them, thats when "letting you mod the game past the point of breaking the game" become less of an asset and more of liability. We can't even start to attempt to fix z-buffer problem if users can easily break it by changing the clipping distance back, in order for us to be able to even start to fix this, we need those parameters under our control. Other games will also have these view distance issues, many other games and engines have limited terrain sizes (say limited to 40km map, etc) for this very reason. Try changing the view distance and clip distances on other moddable FPS games out to 100km and see how far you get and what kind of problems you run into. So I don't think its unreasonable for us do be doing this.

 

And sorry, no, we can not afford to improve our terrain for free patches, we don't have that kind of budget, so you either going to have to take it or leave it. We're doing this for a tiny fraction of budget of the most 90s games, so yes, its going to have be worse than them in some respect. By definition of budget games, we are not able to do everything those big budget 90s games were able to do... Again, its a budget $30 game (which most of you got for less than $20), I don't think we *need* to be doing anything...

 

TK

 

I read TK's response to my concern in this manner. Further improvements to the terrains will be a DLC you can purchase there at ThirdWire, at least that's how I see it now, I could be wrong. I think it largely depends on how the new terrain engine works out.

 

Now, I'll be honest, I don't mind shelling out money for improved terrains, I did it all the time with MSFS. But, I want to make sure I'm getting good quality, the quality of the 3D models made by ThirdWire are rock-solid up to this point, so I can't imagine that being an issue.

[Murphy'S]

Oh well. I doubt this discussion will get us anywhere. It's up to TK at this point to decide the direction of the game and it's up to the consumer(s) to determine if the product is worth the price.

 

 

we'll see where all this will lead us.

 

for now TK seem focused on DLC and planes, with a new hunter and a new skyhawk variant (maybe A4-M?) annouced.

[Murphy'S]

I read TK's response to my concern in this manner. Further improvements to the terrains will be a DLC you can purchase there at ThirdWire,

 

 

i don't really understand the terrain will sold by DLC in his statement, but who knows?

 

To have a definitive statement about his terain management i'll wait his next patch/hotfix to see what will happen to this difference of square/tiles between pre and post may patch.

[Wrench]

as to Carlo's question on the Zippers ...

 

yes, the data ini on the old mods will need editing, to add the 'node name sections' for the mid-wing and tip tanks.

The tank skins will also have to be placed in the respective skin folders, and in some cases, be modified (read: repainted or rotated to fit) as the tanks seem to have been remapped as well

 

data ini edits (snipped some stations for bevity. these are from my 104-ASA-M mod)

 

[LeftWingtipStation2]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=4

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-3.539,-0.154,-0.263

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-2.0,-11.0

LoadLimit=650.0

AllowedWeaponClass=FT

AttachmentType=NATO,USAF

ModelNodeName=

PylonMass=

FuelTankName=Tank170_F104 <--

FuelTankNodeName=droptank_f-104_TL <--

 

[RightWingtipStation2]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=5

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=3.539,-0.154,-0.263

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-2.0,11.0

LoadLimit=650.0

AllowedWeaponClass=FT

AttachmentType=NATO,USAF

ModelNodeName=

PylonMass=

FuelTankName=Tank170_F104

FuelTankNodeName=droptank_f-104_TR <---

 

--snip--

 

[LeftWingStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=10

StationGroupID=5

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-1.883,0.400,-0.675

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-3.0,0.0

EjectVelocity=0.0,0.0,-2.0

LoadLimit=500

AllowedWeaponClass=FT,IRM

AttachmentType=NATO,USAF

ModelNodeName=pylon_left_inner

PylonMass=72.58

PylonDragArea=0.02

FuelTankName=Tank195_F104

FuelTankNodeName=droptank_f-104_WL <---

 

[RightWingStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=11

StationGroupID=5

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=1.883,0.400,-0.675

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-3.0,0.0

EjectVelocity=0.0,0.0,-2.0

LoadLimit=500

AllowedWeaponClass=FT,IRM

AttachmentType=NATO,USAF

ModelNodeName=pylon_right_inner

PylonMass=72.58

PylonDragArea=0.02

FuelTankName=Tank195_F104

FuelTankNodeName=droptank_f-104_WR <---

 

not the name changes to the tank lods

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+DanW]

The terrain engine is changing anyway, so there probably won't be any more updates to the existing terrain engine anyway. I have no idea how things will be handled in the new engine, but everything will be .lod based with shaders. There will be no square tiles or .tod objects and trees will probably be placed in max just like every terrain object. I imagine there will be DLC terrain and things of that nature on the Thirdwire DLC store.

[+Brain32]

The terrain engine is changing anyway, so there probably won't be any more updates to the existing terrain engine anyway. I have no idea how things will be handled in the new engine, but everything will be .lod based with shaders. There will be no square tiles or .tod objects and trees will probably be placed in max just like every terrain object. I imagine there will be DLC terrain and things of that nature on the Thirdwire DLC store.

 

In that case - bring it on.

 

P.S:

Spilling some more info or even screenshots(of anything, even a picture of the icon on desktop would be cool lol) could be a good idea

[+Julhelm]

The terrain engine is changing anyway, so there probably won't be any more updates to the existing terrain engine anyway. I have no idea how things will be handled in the new engine, but everything will be .lod based with shaders. There will be no square tiles or .tod objects and trees will probably be placed in max just like every terrain object. I imagine there will be DLC terrain and things of that nature on the Thirdwire DLC store.

Does that mean we can look forward to much improved terrain visuals?

[Murphy'S]

The terrain engine is changing anyway, so there probably won't be any more updates to the existing terrain engine anyway. I have no idea how things will be handled in the new engine, but everything will be .lod based with shaders. There will be no square tiles or .tod objects and trees will probably be placed in max just like every terrain object. I imagine there will be DLC terrain and things of that nature on the Thirdwire DLC store.

 

 

so the end of the current terrain engine is coming.

 

Ok let's see what will happen

[Spinners]

SF:3D

[+DanW]

Guys, he's said the terrain engine will change in F-14, so that shouldn't be a surprise.

[Gr.Viper]

Dan, he also said that terrain won't look much better and, if memory serves, that TODs will probably stay.

Now, if he's planning to keep TODs only for stuff like bushes and grass, while making tress and houses 3D it would be awesome... Is he?

[+Stary]

that's not bad news DanW, depending how much new content user will be able to add into or create.

 

And I WILL repeat -overall it's not about the fading trees, it's a bout the locking away access to some parameters

[+Dave]

Ok, Im going to say it......here it comes......I like the new patch and the fading trees dont bother me....I'm too busy flying without get my can shot off.

[Heck]

Ok, Im going to say it......here it comes......I like the new patch and the fading trees dont bother me....I'm too busy flying without get my can shot off.

 

Couldn't have said it better....

 

 

 

[+SidDogg]

Couldn't have said it better....

 

..... #truestory

 

 

 

 

 

SidDogg

[Spinners]

I don't like things being locked away but I do like the new patch and the excellent frame rates.