China goes to Sea...

[Slartibartfast 153]

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/Chinas-First-Carrier-Begins-Sea-Trial-127346468.html

 

Looks like the Varyag has finally put to sea under its own power

 

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/Chinas-First-Aircraft-Carrier-Begins-Sea-Trial-127446783.html

 

Geng said China is gathering opinions from many places to further the development of the aircraft carrier. He said the Varyag would be used for military training and scientific research.

 

Love this quote what's scientific about an Aircraft Carrier unless he means research into how to make them...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8693049/China-launches-first-aircraft-carrier.html

 

Also a Video from The Times...

Edited August 10, 2011 by Slartibartfast

[dsawan 624]

yep, but no surprise. They are howver,gonna build 2 more carriers for a total of 3. i imagine the other 2 would be similar to varyag.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-first-aircraft-carrier-makes-maiden-sea-trial-000047792.html

[Skyviper 1,101]

You know it seems if that video game Homefront may actually happen....okay well maybe not like in the video game.

[CNAF 5]

it is a fact that great nations draw prower from the sea . The UK once did rule the waves , and the US is now enjoying their superiority . France & Germany never got a chance without a superior navy . for china was and always been conceived as a land prower , finally the time has come to establish its will to go out and face the challenges that lies ahead . china will become a sea prower !

[charlielima 328]

Nice target for an LA class boat.

:ph34r: CL

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Thank you PRC for giving our submariners such a wonderful target. We need to sink this tub before their "scientific research" is complete. Along with the obligatory Alpha Strike on Hainan Island just for GP.

[+Gepard 11,303]

Its is the first step of China in the field of carrier operations. Its a difficult job. A very difficult job. It will need years to train the pilots, the ground crews and the ship crews. It will be timeconsuming, very expensive and it will cost lives. And then is the question, wheter the chinese can compare with the skills of the US carrier fleets. The more than a half century long experiences of the US boys the chinese cant copy.

[macelena 1,070]

The more than a half century long experiences of the US boys the chinese cant copy.

 

Tha chinese can´t copy what?

 

Chinese : "Challenge Accepted. This is gonna be Legen...wait for it...Dary"

 

 

 

Seriously, it is not the same when many others already have done it. It will take many years, but not as many as the US took to learn all they know about carriers.

 

WTH, if the US got a worse leadership in the near future, i can even see them giving them a carrier to compensate the debts with the chinese and training them for "improving relationships among two close partners"

[+Typhoid 231]

"Love this quote what's scientific about an Aircraft Carrier unless he means research into how to make them..."

 

Precisely!

 

Gepard has it on target (ahem, so to speak...)

 

They have a long way to go to learn how to build and operate carriers and carrier based aircraft. They know that and they are taking this one careful, logical step at a time.

 

I'm glad they started with Varyag - that will have set them back a couple of decades.

[JediMaster 451]

How long ago did the Kusnetsov enter service? Where is it now, and its sister ships? What presence does the Russian navy have on the world scene? The only 2 parts of the Soviet navy the US ever feared (aside from the missile-armed 22's) were the subs and the ASW units. When the USSR collapsed, those arms wilted with the rest of the military and have yet to recover to where they were. They got the idea about having a carrier late and it never paid off for them.

 

Having a carrier that sails isn't the same thing as being able to project power with it. The US had them, lots of them, for decades before they became viable tools.

The reason so few nations have them is they cost a lot for what they do, and you can usually accomplish a similar objective with just some guided missile subs with cruise missiles for a LOT less money, time, and expertise.

 

This is purely an image thing. I think the USN is far more concerned about Chinese subs and missiles than this.

I don't blame them, for being the largest country in the world with the (now) 2nd largest economy, their ability to operate away from their borders is effectively zero. It's a matter of pride, and I don't begrudge it to them. Besides, as Typhoid mentioned this will actually hinder their naval development more than help it. They've already spent 10 years and who knows what resources on it and it's still far from being usable.

Might the Chinese navy have a fleet of carriers sailing the world's oceans in 2050? Maybe. At that time, I'm sure they'll be seen as a serious force, but to sound any kind of alarm over this now, well...I say we keep watching the subs and missiles now because THOSE are the power of their navy.

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

2050..... more like 2016. Remember the Chinese have been studying carrier ops since they bought the HMAS Melourne in 1985. As we all know they can copy things. They are good at it. This is a dangerous development and it should not be poo pooed away by underestimating their abilities. Any way how can a dude from Spain talk about American leadership. Does the name Dewey ring a bell amigo. Nuff said.

 

 

[macelena 1,070]

Any way how can a dude from Spain talk about American leadership. Does the name Dewey ring a bell amigo. Nuff said.

 

I did not mean anything wrong with American leadership. It is just that people screws up, I did not even say anything about military leadership, but political.

 

About George Dewey, he doesn´t ring a bell. Fighting the rebels in Phillipines and Cuba for three years, in the other side of the world, and engage an unexpected enemy while we have a war with the Moroccans here, does ring a bell. It wasn´t American leadership what made us loose that war. It was technical advantage, wich didn´t help so much to save US lives, as while your navy pounded ours, your Rough Riders, under the great leadership of Teddy Roosevelt, having machine guns, artillery, balloons and a 3 or 4 to one numerical superiority, had their asses beaten badly by a battalion made up of army troops, marines and sailors, to the point that, if you watch it in such a sports event, casualties in that war were even for both nations.

 

Anyway, we lost, and i hope you enjoyed Philippines and Cuba. The Moro rebellion and all about Cuba has been a real bargain for the US, hasn´t it?

 

Btw, now that you mention the 1898 war, and seeing you so anxious to enter war with the Chinese, i just got an idea. Why don´t you send up a warship to, let´s say, Shangai, and blow it up blaming the Chinese? This way you can pound them at will. Ok, maybe it won´t be so easy, but wth, you would have an excuse to try and nail someone you owe money to. It is quite mafia style, but why not?

Edited August 11, 2011 by macelena

[JediMaster 451]

An unmanned carrier is no threat. Likewise one manned by those with no experience, and no allies to give it (as I mentioned the Russians have barely done anything with theirs, and no other country using carriers is likely to give many pointers), is no threat.

If you think they can go from having one carrier that is just now getting seaworthy after 10 years in a dock to a fleet of carriers (I said fleet, which means at least 3-4) manned by experienced crew that would be seen as a threat in just 5 years, you're either irrationally scared to death of the Chinese or you underestimate just what it took the USN to make its carriers into something worthwhile. You can copy design plans, you can't copy soldiers.

 

Also keep in mind that at that small size, they'd need to have 3 carriers sailing to the same place to put out the same number of planes as just one of ours.

[+allenjb42 4,234]

http://www.amazon.com/Invasion-Eric-L-Harry/dp/0515128422

 

Yes it's a bit far fetched, but a good read nevertheless.

[xclusiv8 35]

I find it amusing how some find the Chinese a threat. Why o why would China attack America?

[+Typhoid 231]

I find it amusing how some find the Chinese a threat. Why o why would China attack America?

 

They wouldn't. They'd just forclose and re-posses...............

[JediMaster 451]

I don't think the idea they'd attack us directly has ever been an issue. Rather they'd be involved with one of their neighbors we have close ties with that would draw us in. Remember, the USSR and the USA never attacked each other directly, but thru proxies fought for decades.

Besides, the US and China HAVE done that already in the past in both Korea and Vietnam. Fighting N Korea, in come the Chinese. Fighting N Vietnam, get too close to the border, in come the Chinese.

I forget his name, but there was a guy on SimHQ years ago that 1 MiG kill in Vietnam but it didn't "count" because it was a Chinese MiG that was technically over their side of the border (the old attack over the border, retreat back, shot down over own soil). It wasn't nearly the same thing as in Korea, but it did happen.

 

Taiwan is a sore spot.

 

The Spratly Islands are a sore spot.

 

The South China Sea is a sore spot.

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Macalena, I guess you did not detect my sarcasm! Anyway that ship does not have to sail any farther than Taiwan. If Taiwan is attacked we are in it too, that is the reality. We did not pay much attention to the Japanese before Pearl Harbor either. Remember the underestimation of their abilities there? Nobody is worried about an invasion of the continental USA. The problem is Taiwan. The Chinese have vowed to take Taiwan, it is the focus of everything all 1.3 billion of them do everyday. The difference between us and them is that they are patient.

[xclusiv8 35]

But again. Why would China risk an incident with a country that owes them tons of money. I doubt China would just throw that into the ocean.

 

If China would attack Taiwan USA would just sit and watch it happen. USA is in no shape to fight a war against a force big as China with its financial problems.

[+daddyairplanes 10,243]

the main reason a major shooting war will not occur between the US and China-- nuclear weapons. while yes the US can reduce China to rubble the Chinese have publicly said they dont think we value Taiwan more than LA. and with the current crop of politicians that roughly means Cold War 2.0. in a major shooting engagement what exactly do you think the losing side, which ever it is would resort to?

[+hgbn 91]

 

If China would attack Taiwan USA would just sit and watch it happen.

 

I don't think so! USA Have the same responsibility towards Taiwan like it has to every NATO member. IIRC they have signed a Treaty with a lot of South East Asian Countries like South Korea, Thailand, Japan and others. Its like NATO just Asians countries

[xclusiv8 35]

I don't think so! USA Have the same responsibility towards Taiwan like it has to every NATO member. IIRC they have signed a Treaty with a lot of South East Asian Countries like South Korea, Thailand, Japan and others. Its like NATO just Asians countries

 

And if USA has no money to actually fund any operations like that? Then what? That treaty means squat if the forces necessary cant afford to get into the fight. You think Americas financial problems will just disappear because China decides to take Taiwan?

[MAKO69 186]

I am not worried about China. On one hand we are their strongest consumer/allies, yet on the military card we may not be best buddies, more like healthy rivals. We both have protected intrests in each other. If the sh!t hits the fan we would help them and I believe they would do the same for us. They will have 1 operational carrier which they will most likely use to protect their intrests in the Pacific Ocean in the Asian hemisphere. I dont think they will park their carrier off the Coast of D.C. or steam up and down the Cali coast with it. I am more worried about Iran, and other rouge/terror states that strive to acquire N.B.C. weapons. People from the United States go to China for holidays likewise for people of China.

Edited August 13, 2011 by MAKO69

[xclusiv8 35]

I am not worried about China. On one hand we are their strongest consumer/allies, yet on the military card we may not be best buddies, more like healthy rivals. We both have protected intrests in each other. If the sh!t hits the fan we would help them and I believe they would do the same for us. They will have 1 operational carrier which they will most likely use to protect their intrests in the Pacific Ocean in the Asian hemisphere. I dont think they will park their carrier off the Coast of D.C. or steam up and down the Cali coast with it. I am more worried about Iran, and other rouge/terror states that strive to acquire N.B.C. weapons. People from the United States go to China for holidays likewise for people of China.

 

Amen!

[+hgbn 91]

And if USA has no money to actually fund any operations like that? Then what? That treaty means squat if the forces necessary cant afford to get into the fight. You think Americas financial problems will just disappear because China decides to take Taiwan?

 

Never heard about war bonds??