Anyone Else Get An Update Notification for SF2? -July 2013 patch

[slick cowboy 142]

I have yet to install the latest patch... but if these problems are mod-related then TK cannot be held responsible. Mods are always at your own risk.
I doubt that he has the time to fix mod-related problems while he has a company to run and more importantly he needs to keep it afloat. Otherwise it's bye bye sf2.

 

Are these freezes only for the WW2 mod or are stock campaigns also affected?

[+Brain32 265]

The new Spits (when made player flyable) show no improvement. Player aircraft has no tailwheel (but wingmen do!) and it's take-off characteristics are delightfully unpredictable and dangerous. Still having loads of fun though!

 

Actually that was the case with the Griffon engined Spitfires, the powerful Griffon not only increased the power so bad that one couldn't take off at full power because even full rudder kick wouldn't compensate for torque it also changed the direction in which the nose was moved by it.

It was attempted to fix that with contra-rotating props although mostly experimental, the numbers of those are really low, I think just some mk19's and 21's were tried out operationally.

I didn't manage time to fly the spits much so I don't know how they act exactly but this should get some insight into the real thing's problems...

[MigBuster 2,884]

I'm not going to waste my time after the last patch personally

 

 

Basically if you cut and paste your mod folder out - then run the game in stock only and the problem persists - only then can you go to Thirdwire - this has always been the way - there is no way to support the vast amount of modding configurations - aint gonna happen

 

I am kinda hoping he leaves SF2 as is before moving towards the PC version of Angry Fighters - if not will be stuck with older versions until DCS is ready in 2045

 

 

Good tip regarding an older earlier dx10.dll btw 

Edited July 6, 2013 by MigBuster

[Spinners 15,986]

Actually that was the case with the Griffon engined Spitfires, the powerful Griffon not only increased the power so bad that one couldn't take off at full power because even full rudder kick wouldn't compensate for torque it also changed the direction in which the nose was moved by it.

It was attempted to fix that with contra-rotating props although mostly experimental, the numbers of those are really low, I think just some mk19's and 21's were tried out operationally.

I didn't manage time to fly the spits much so I don't know how they act exactly but this should get some insight into the real thing's problems...

Thanks for that. I am actually pretty clued up on the Spitfire myself and many pilot's have stated that after the broadly similar Merlin engined VIII, IX and XVI the Spitfire increasingly became less of a pilot's aeroplane despite higher flight performance. Or, as one pilot said, it lost a little bit of it's 'Spitfireishness' which sums it up better. I still love them all!

 

In game, the Griffon engined Spitfire's aren't quite right but as they are A.I. only I guess we'll get no support from Third Wire, which is a shame as they are lovely 3D models.

[+Brain32 265]

Thanks for that. I am actually pretty clued up on the Spitfire myself and many pilot's have stated that after the broadly similar Merlin engined VIII, IX and XVI the Spitfire increasingly became less of a pilot's aeroplane despite higher flight performance. Or, as one pilot said, it lost a little bit of it's 'Spitfireishness' which sums it up better. I still love them all!

 

In game, the Griffon engined Spitfire's aren't quite right but as they are A.I. only I guess we'll get no support from Third Wire, which is a shame as they are lovely 3D models.

 

Yeah they came from superb dogfight machines in mkV and IX to modern super fast fighters, I have a love-hate relationship with Spits, I do love them RL wise but I hated them when I was playing il2 online as they would cause major frustrations lol

Anyway if you don't have it already I recommend "The Spitfire Story" by Alfred Price, extraordinary book...

[Spinners 15,986]

Yeah they came from superb dogfight machines in mkV and IX to modern super fast fighters, I have a love-hate relationship with Spits, I do love them RL wise but I hated them when I was playing il2 online as they would cause major frustrations lol

Anyway if you don't have it already I recommend "The Spitfire Story" by Alfred Price, extraordinary book...

Got it and it's certainly a better read than the whopping 640-page "Spitfire-The History" by Eric Morgan and Edward Shacklady. It's a great book but too much minutiae.

[+Dave 2,322]

I have four heavily heavily modded installs and not a single issue. No lock ups, no CTD's, not even a campaign problem from the one I am in right now. Me thinks some of your modded installs are causing the problems.

 

When patching, after you install the patch, always add folders back one at a time and QC from there. Time consuming yes, but works like a charm for narrowing down any problems.

[Caesar 305]

Just ran the patch myself, it didn't break any of my installs. 

[+hi ho silver 179]

Mines crashing dx10.dll problem this just sucks !

[macelena 1,070]

On the bright side, F-4N dropping ailerons fixed, and i can fly over Iceland with max settings in my crappy laptop, wich i couldn´t do before

[+Brain32 265]

Spitfire fixes!!!!

 

 

For bouncing/missing tail wheel:

 

 

[TailGear]
SystemType=LANDING_GEAR
Retractable=TRUE
DeployTime=5.0
AnimationID=1
DragArea=0.08
HideGearNode=TRUE
ModelNodeName=tail_gear_strut
InsideNodeName=tail_gear_bay_inside
ShockAnimationID=4
ShockStroke=0.12
SpringFactor=2.0
DampingFactor=1.8
WheelNodeName=tail_wheel
RotationAxis=X-AXIS
ReverseModelOrientation=FALSE
RollingRadius=0.13
CastoringWheel=TRUE
CastoringNodeName=tail_gear_frame
Steerable=TRUE
MaxSteeringSpeed=30.88
Locking=FALSE
MaxSteeringAngle=45.0
InputName=YAW_CONTROL
ControlRate=1.0
HasBrakes=FALSE
RollingCoefficient=0.05
MaxLoadFactor=4.0
MaxDeploySpeed=71.53  <-------------------------------This line, just add it

 

For super crazy take-off

 

Just retract the flaps and the plane takes off easily, I haven't figured out why is that or how to fix it, if you try to take-off with the flaps somewhere at 65-70km/h the plane insanely violently turns to the right, it's completely speed related, happens at any throttle setting...

[Spinners 15,986]

Thanks Brain32! If I get any 'me' time today I'll be giving that a go.

 

Edit: The tailwheel fix works. Cheers mate!

Edited July 7, 2013 by Spinners

[JediMaster 451]

IIRC, the Spitfire had landing-only flaps. You didn't use them for taking off. Many planes have 3 positions for flaps. Retracted, take off (intermediate) and landing (full down). The Spit only had full down and they were used for landing only.

 

If you try to takeoff with landing flaps, you have too much drag, too much lift, and it wouldn't surprise me if it acted bizarrely under full power (when it was supposed to be at low power for landing).

[+Dave 2,322]

Also carrier missions are working too.

[Z09SS 21]

Also carrier missions are working too.

 

One my recurring complaints is even with a bone stock install I was having issues that some weren't.  The amount of modding doesn't seem to matter half the time.

[Wrench 9,850]

well, for the Spit flap issue, one could always try something like this (ala baffmeister's mk.1)

 

 

[LeftFlap]

SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE

CLiftdc=0.2535

CDdc=0.0366

Cmdc=-0.0059

DeltaStallAlpha=-8.44

AreaRatio=1.000

DeploymentMethod=MANUAL

Setting[1].Angle=0.1                         <-------

Setting[1].DeployValue=71.53

Setting[2].Angle=85.0

Setting[2].DeployValue=71.53

MaxDeflection=85.0

MinDeflection=0.0

ControlRate=0.2

ModelNodeName=Flap_L

ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE

 

 

[RightFlap]

SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE

CLiftdc=0.2535

CDdc=0.0366

Cmdc=-0.0059

DeltaStallAlpha=-8.44

AreaRatio=1.000

DeploymentMethod=MANUAL

Setting[1].Angle=0.1                        <------

Setting[1].DeployValue=71.53

Setting[2].Angle=85.0

Setting[2].DeployValue=71.53

MaxDeflection=85.0

MinDeflection=0.0

ControlRate=0.2

ModelNodeName=Flap_R

ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE

 

haven't tried this myself yet ... still debating the whole thing..

[+Brain32 265]

IIRC, the Spitfire had landing-only flaps. You didn't use them for taking off. Many planes have 3 positions for flaps. Retracted, take off (intermediate) and landing (full down). The Spit only had full down and they were used for landing only.

 

If you try to takeoff with landing flaps, you have too much drag, too much lift, and it wouldn't surprise me if it acted bizarrely under full power (when it was supposed to be at low power for landing).

YRC however the game spawns you with flaps in takeoff position...I don't know how to fix that.

Although either way the plane shouldn't violently pull to one side due to flaps unless perhaps if one is dropped and the other one is jammed...

[+Gunrunner 314]

There's no obvious symmetry problem in the spits data.ini (the usual reason for that in most 3rd party planes exhibiting it), there seems to be nothing weird going on with the engine (the one running the propeller, not the game) and the behaviour is only apparent in Hard, which is kind of dead on SF2 anyway... but good luck.

 

What mystifies me is that for the life of me, both on May and July, I never managed to reproduce tail-wheel issues most of you seemed to have.

 

I'm still having far more new lockups with July than I ever had (mostly when trying to access the briefing map or loadout page, and in flight when using coms), and that's with a fully stock install and a concurrent May install has no such trouble...

[macelena 1,070]

Hard is far from dead, and anyway, it should be not about simmetry, but about entries for torque. It doesn´t depend on airspeed but on engine power output. The P-51 has it, but other AI plane do so. Think of the Skyraiders

Edited July 7, 2013 by macelena

[+Gunrunner 314]

A few more tests... I've reproduced the tail-wheel issues...

 

It's not happening at Normal damage settings, but does at Hard, meaning it simply is destroyed on loading, it's not something wrong with it per se, but a consequence of the Spring/Damping problems.

 

It also seems the takeoff problems are indeed engine related, as the direction toward which the plane veers is directly related to PropRotationDirection, which does make sense.

 

The violence of the reaction seems disproportionate though.

[macelena 1,070]

The violence of the reaction seems disproportionate though.

 

Maybe it was that bad for real. I couldn´t test it properly as my joystick broke, but as far as i know, torque was really brutal and a severe issue when flying those.

[JediMaster 451]

How are you throttling up on takeoff? Are you firewalling it in a split second, or are you taking like 5 seconds to go from 0-100? Il-2 and ROF taught me long ago you never slam the throttle forward in a prop!

[+daddyairplanes 10,248]

On the bright side, F-4N dropping ailerons fixed, and i can fly over Iceland with max settings in my crappy laptop, wich i couldn´t do before

a TK fix for the ailerons or the same community fix after the last patch?

[+Gunrunner 314]

I haven't tested it yet, but has anyone tried FlapSettingForTakeOff=0 in [FlightControl] to solve the Spitfire flaps at take-off ?

[+Brain32 265]

Maybe it was that bad for real. I couldn´t test it properly as my joystick broke, but as far as i know, torque was really brutal and a severe issue when flying those.

 

Umm no it wasnt, the plane(in game ofcourse) makes a 90 deg turn in one second or less at about 68 km/h and the torque has nothing to do with it, raise flaps and you can firewall it w/o problems

 

The whole thing is an obvious bug guys...

I haven't tested it yet, but has anyone tried FlapSettingForTakeOff=0 in [FlightControl] to solve the Spitfire flaps at take-off ?

 

This should work, I forgot about that one