Never Again!

[Nesher 628]

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

I can't understand why that building and the site itself was never flattened and buried for all time after WW2 

Edited April 28, 2014 by RUSTYMORLEY

[Nesher 628]

every year, thousands of Israeli students, soldiers and civilians visit this site to never forget the 6 million Jews and other millions who were killed

by the Nazis because of their religion, race, illnesses and many more reasons to preserve the "Aryan race"  

it is a reminder to the free world what will happen if we ever forget the moment humans lost their humanity!

[Slartibartfast 153]

I can't understand why that building and the site itself was never flattened and buried for all time after WW2 

Because if that Building and site were not left there people would over time forget what happened there. Sometimes a building such as this needs to be left to remind the future generations of what is possible as George Santayana said Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it and this should never be repeated in any form.

[Nesher 628]

“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

THEN THEY CAME for me and by that time no one was left to speak up.” (Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984))

[+Gunrunner 314]

I can't understand why that building and the site itself was never flattened and buried for all time after WW2 

Because even with material proof there's enough people denying the scale and reality of deportation, forced labor and holocaust, so imagine what it would be if there were no evidence left.

 

The camps are what made the West grow into the modern era, it's what made us finally realize that war and genocide were not desirable, it was a defining moment, it's were the European ideal was born, it's where western Europe nationalisms died.

 

It is the second most transforming moment for western Europe in the 20th century.

 

So yes, we need something to remind us where we've been and where we never want to go again.

[+strahi 1,101]

For those who do not know, this is why we are brothers in suffering.

 

http://www.jasenovac.eu/

 

Israelis will survive!

 

[mono27 85]

Never again.

Greetings to Israel from Argentina!!

[Derk 265]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[+daddyairplanes 10,236]

the camps need to be left as reminders, and children shown th footage of the camps liberation. too many deny it while the survivors are still amongst us. what will happen as that generation passes away? i was shown the films when i was in high school 19 years ago, now its hard to find on youtube because "its too graphic." well folks, actual humanity is pretty graphic (for a most recent example visit the balkans after the 90s or middle east in the last ten years) and each generation NEEDS to see the horrors of the past so they are not repeated

[Skyviper 1,101]

Deleted.

 

I'll move my comment over to the arena ... just in case.

[Snailman 517]

Never Again. My far relatives were taken in Oswiecim..  For being Polish and fighting against the nazis. Aften then they were taken to another camp, led by Solomon Morel. From there they were taken to Siberia. Because they were fighting against the red army, too...

 

The soviets had thousands of camps not just a dozen. Communism had 100 times more casualties.

 

Make sure you remember EVERYONE.

[JediMaster 451]

Yes, but since the USSR was on the "winning" side they largely got a pass because winners write the history, as always.

 

Stalin's policies were just as genocidal, they were just rooted in slightly different areas.

 

I still don't understand why some people want to deny it happened. Is it that they can't believe their "all powerful conspiracy-running" scapegoats were ever victims, because they see them as invincible devils? Do they think it's a false cry for sympathy from people they believe deserve none?

 

The evidence is not in dispute, the cameras FILMED it in an era when you could fake a photo perhaps, but not thousands of feet of footage.

 

Unfortunately, WWII was not the last incident of mass genocide, as Africa has managed to repeat in Sudan and Rwanda amongst other places. As long as people insist on seeing "us" and "them", on dehumanizing other people because of real or perceived slights, it WILL happen again.

 

The children are inheriting the prejudices of the parents and it must STOP.

[+Typhoid 231]

As noted, "it" has never stopped happening. Only the names of the victims and perpetrators change.

[Nesher 628]

snailman, it was a horrible war to everyone.. not just Jews

there is no one who denies it. 

 

JediMaster, I couldn't agree with you more!

[jeanba 1,920]

Good post jedimaster

[+pcpilot 181]

"I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth." Job 19:25 NIV

 

Then evil will end. I so look forward to that day. It is our hope.

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

Nesher, I am not much of a religious person, but I can't understand why the Jews and their religion were so despised by the Nazis that they were willing to embark upon a plan to rid the earth of all of them. 

[Nesher 628]

it's a whole theory about why.. among the reasons I believe that are the main cause

is that Jews are smarter, wealthier and healthier than most population

take a simple class room as an example, people like more the athletes and pick on the geeky ones

usually because the athletes are better looking, tall and muscular but not always the smart ones, and they need to make up for it by picking on the weak people 

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

You could be right, I just thought there was some kind of 'incident' in ages past which caused the Germans to hate the Jews so much, and when they conquered most of Europe they were then in a position to carry out a supreme act of vengeance against the Jews.

 

This is a most difficult subject and a controversial one!

[+pcpilot 181]

  If I may also humbly add something... I am reading a book right now about European history. It goes back before the time of Christ. I am also familiar with the Hebrew Bible. I find it interesting how even back that far there were many countries that had a "issue" in one form or another with the Jews. Biblically speaking, most people back then knew of the Diaspora where the Jews were driven from their land by God for their sins. It was a terrible time for the Jews to lose their home. However, I might point out that the old testament implies it was part of Gods plan to also spread the knowledge of God throughout the earth as many Godly people still remained among the Jews. Daniel among the Babylonians for instance who turned Nebuchadnezzer to God.

   Much, I believe, was simple racism; hatred for someone with very different values, ethics, belief system, etc. Some people would have looked down on them for that. Immigration was also no easier for native peoples back then than it is now. The Jews were immigrants spreading all over Europe and beyond which could be frightening to people who know nothing of them. Many Jews were also drawn to business and banking, so wealth would be an issue for those less fortunate among the native peoples. As for the Nazis, they fanned the flames of hatred against the Jews, and any other form of "racial impurity", to help them in their rise to power; this in a country that up till then had been fairly tolerant of the Jews. Many Jews had fought in the German army in WW1. Many Jews were scientist, doctors, technicians, musicians, small businessmen,  etc. and contributed greatly to German society, and indeed every society they became a part of. Its scary easy to use the most base issues to motivate people to hate. I am sure there is more involved, but these are some of the reasons.

   I have a set of books on WW2 by Time-Life. One book deals exclusively with the rise of the Nazis. I encourage everyone to find a history of them and read it. Everything you ever feared about a government was given place by them. It will be one of the most frightening things you will ever read. And as Snailman pointed out, read something about Stalin.

Edited April 30, 2014 by pcpilot

[+Gunrunner 314]

The majority of european jews were as poor, intelligent and normal looking as the average german, there are however multiple reasons why anti-semitism in the early 20th century had profound roots and managed to convince people, part of it are because of specific characteristics of what it was to be part of the jewish community at the time but most of it was simply the consequence of Jews making the best of anti-semitic policies throughout Europe, starting from the Middle Ages.

 

Anti-semitism appealed to some Christians because Jews were the God-killers, and not only did they kill God in the person of his son, but also they failed to recognize the errors of their way for for 19 centuries, to some Christians that made Jews unsavable and an abomination unto God (believers, of any faith, never were the sharpest ones).

 

It was also true that at the time, much of banking was in the hands of members of the jewish community for a simple reason, from the Middle Ages and until fairly recently (in the history of the jewish community in Europe), it was forbidden, or at least considered a disgrace to be lending money, since in the same time periods jews were often forbidden to practice a large number of professions (remember how Nazis love to wax poetic on how the jews never worked the land ? Guess what, in many countries they had been forbidden to do so for centuries), jews became money lenders and some became very good at it, leading to their near domination of the sector at the start of the 20th century.

The same was true for many professions seen as being "dominated" by jews, the truth is that in most instances anti-semitic policies forced them into that spot (or prevented non jews to compete), and instead of shrivel and die, they worked hard, thrived and were resented for it.

 

In the early 20th century, most low-middle-class and lower-classes jews were still living in ghettos (whether historical and litteral, or of their own chosing), part of it originates once again from the Middle Ages, but many jews also lacked the money to get out of the ghetto (provided they found someone willing to sell, rent to a jew), plus having been persecuted for the better part of a millenia, they favored the tight knit community of the ghetto as a form of protection (plus it made following religious prescriptions easier).

However that played against them, because it felt to the masses to confirm the fact that the Jews felt to be different, better, that they didn't even deign frequenting the rest of the world, that they were shadowy secretive people... of course that was a load of balls, but still it worked, especially when they were associated with the Freemasons (the Judeo-Masonic plot).

 

It is also true that there was (it's less true nowadays) a specifically jewish intellectual approach which made some of them more inquisitive, more forward thinking than most of their christian contemporaries (and somewhat close to the Freemasons, hence the link probably) which in turn separated them from the rest of the population and made them better suited to some posts, leading to their "over-representation" once again "justifying" the anti-semitic theories.

 

They were no more or no less corrupt than any other European, they didn't suffer less from the Depression, they weren't, as a people, wealthier, healthier, more intelligent, they just had been scapegoats for centuries and despite our best efforts, we never got rid of them, they took the discriminations, the restrictions, the expulsions and they survived or even prospered... and it made us even angrier... until some nutjobs decided that to get rid on them, there only was one final solution...

 

Nazi anti-semitism and the Holocaust are not accidents of history born ex nihilo, they were the culmination of more than a thousand years of discriminations and persecutions.

 

 

It's a sad tale of jealousy, ignorance and stupidity...

Edited April 30, 2014 by Gunrunner

[+Gepard 11,295]

In the early 20th century, most low-middle-class and lower-classes jews were still living in ghettos (whether historical and litteral, or of their own chosing), part of it originates once again from the Middle Ages, but many jews also lacked the money to get out of the ghetto (provided they found someone willing to sell, rent to a jew), plus having been persecuted for the better part of a millenia, they favored the tight knit community of the ghetto as a form of protection (plus it made following religious prescriptions easier).

 

 

This statement is only correct for the east jewish community (Poland, Russia etc). In western or central Europe the jewish people lived mostly among the other people. Side by side, flat by flat, house by house. The children went into the same schools, the adults worked togheter. Today we would say, they were completly integrated.

Nevertheless the jewish people were used as "whipping boys". If something went wrong, who was fault: the jews. Its a simple political methode. And it is used up today. Perhaps you will know some of the "whipping boys"like: the liberals, the foreigners, the conservatives, Europe, the capitalists, the global warming, the industry, the blacks, the whites, the latinos and and and. Faulty are always the others.

And in Nazi Germany it hit the jews and this with german efficency and organisation talent. That was devasting. But the hate on jews grew not alone in Germany. Do you have asked yourself, how the Nazigermans were able to find so many jewish people in the occupied contries? How many native supporters they must have had? And the more supporters, the more jews were captured. The fewest support gave the danish people, they rescued a lot of their jewish neighbors. The most support was in Poland, Whiterussia and the Westukraine. There were massacres made by polish, whiterussian and ukrainian people, who killed their neighbors, so that the SS had nothing to do.

 

This is no excuse for the german crimes of the Shoa and the industrial style genocide.

[+Gunrunner 314]

First off, none of what I said is an excuse...

 

Second, ghettos lasted longer in eastern Europe and previously Ottoman regions than in central and western Europe, that doesn't mean they didn't exist, you should also consider that even in countries where they disappeared, the major portion of the lower middle class of the jewish community STILL lived close together, that's true for at least France, Belgium and the Netherlands (to varying degrees)...

True, the upper middle class and higher were entirely integrated, but sorry to say that is wasn't true of the poorer and less educated of the jewish community.

 

Indeed that's not true for most of northern Europe or the Iberic peninsula, but they also where historically REFUGES for the jewish community.

 

I also specifically state nothing against Germany itself, anti-semitism was a European disease, not a specifically German one, it just happens that Hitler took power in Germany, but given time and a different set of circumstances it might have happened in France (even though the Dreyfus affair did seriously defuse the worst of French anti-semistism by becoming a focus point for both sides, Germany never had that).