AI modding could change SF2 for the better?

[MAF1247]

After i saw what a modder could do with Napoleon Total War: 

And a deep dive into ai modding in this other video: 

I'm asking myself if Ai can be used to mod further Strike Fighters 2, by improving enemy behavior or graphics, or introducing new features like air refueling and similar. Do you think that it could be a possibility? Or SF2 modding community is completely against it?

[Erik]

Ai has the ability and likely could help with upgrading the software but it would need the decompressed files and those TK has under his purview. For now those upgrades are not possible unless they are released as a mod but mods have limits and changing core elements in the game itself is not one of them. 

[MAF1247]

2 hours ago, Erik said:

Ai has the ability and likely could help with upgrading the software but it would need the decompressed files and those TK has under his purview. For now those upgrades are not possible unless they are released as a mod but mods have limits and changing core elements in the game itself is not one of them. 

Well, that's a pity I personally don't know anything about creating mod or even less how to mod SF2, but the concept that modders on other games are discovering and the reverse engineering process they are doing can create impressive outcomes. I hope that one day, that will be possible with SF2 too

[Wrench]

Isn't that called copywrite violation???

[MAF1247]

4 hours ago, Wrench said:

Isn't that called copywrite violation???

It's in a grey area. Technically the code that comes out from the reverse engineering is not the same as the original one, is new. It's like AI mirroring the original source code, so the game sounds and feels like the original, but the code underneath is different. So it's not a direct violation of copyright, but still can be treated as case of plagiarism or fraud (in case of selling the copycat). Considering also that in the terms and conditions that people accept to play the games is clearly stated that the game you have is not a property but a license and that you are not allowed to distribute it online without permission (by piracy or selling), is possible that major company will try to use this as legal weapons to send DMCA to all modders that will use AI to heavily modify their games, especially the one under external license like the sports game. To make you an example, recently AI modders found a way to import tracks from Assetto Corsa to Codemasters F1 25, which was considered impossible up until 2 weeks ago. And not only the tracks are imported, but the adversaries ai is completely functional like it was made by codemasers itself. This could open up to deep modification of the original code and other game features in the future. For now EA hasn't said anything, but it's possible that sooner or later something will happen, especially if someone of those AI modders will try to sell his own version of the game modded.  

However, considering the great potential of this new tool and the plasticity of a game like SF2, it would have been a dream to apply it and create a some kind of "DCS lite" through mods. This tool could extend the work of modders to completely change the game like happened with Falcon 4.0, which was transformed in a completely different game with BMS. Strike Fighters 2 has an immense potential if opened up to this level of modding, so it sad to see that most files are locked even to do that kind of job. I hope that in the future TK will open up to this kind of tools so that modders can continue the job that he didn't wanted to pursue. A man can dream....

Edited yesterday at 10:01 AM by MAF1247

[Sundowner]

Has'nt somebody just something similar with Photoshop ?

[MAF1247]

20 minutes ago, Sundowner said:

Has'nt somebody just something similar with Photoshop ?

What do you mean?

[starfighter006]

Apart from graphical mods, AI massively helps in analyzing ini files, for instance in terrain and campaign data. Many data error, inconsistencies and missing references can be avoided. Strategic nodes can be optimized, required objects can be clearly identified. Balancing issues can be better addressed. Historical context is easily researched. In my opinion, quality of campaigns and terrains could improve significantly in the future by simple AI use. I let AI now always analyze mods before installing.

[MAF1247]

36 minutes ago, starfighter006 said:

Apart from graphical mods, AI massively helps in analyzing ini files, for instance in terrain and campaign data. Many data error, inconsistencies and missing references can be avoided. Strategic nodes can be optimized, required objects can be clearly identified. Balancing issues can be better addressed. Historical context is easily researched. In my opinion, quality of campaigns and terrains could improve significantly in the future by simple AI use. I let AI now always analyze mods before installing.

Indeed. AI is a great helper when it comes about troubleshooting and optimization, but from what i see here there are people actually rebuilding entire games from scratch in few days instead of years thanks to AI. A good implementation in strike fighters 2 could help also with enemy Ai behaviour, or creating scripted campaigns or even proper dynamic campaigns with recorded results from mission to missions. The possibilities are endless. I am completely ignorant in terms of modding, coding etc, but it would be amazing if some expert modder here on CA could experiment on SF2.

[Erik]

Why would we do that to someone we call a friend?

[MAF1247]

Just now, Erik said:

Why would we do that to someone we call a friend?

Is against the rule of Combat Ace using the AI for modding? Ofc you should ask permission if you want to trick files that are supposed to be locked.

[Sundowner]

This

https://www.techspot.com/news/114136-software-over-developer-uses-ai-build-free-adobe.html

[MAF1247]

12 minutes ago, Sundowner said:

This

https://www.techspot.com/news/114136-software-over-developer-uses-ai-build-free-adobe.html

Something like that. Ofc this is an extreme example because the guy rebuild the software from scratch, here i'm talking about trick some game files to add new scripts and features through modding that won't be possible without AI assistance.

[Wrench]

IIRC, the major difference is the Falcon source code was released by the authors. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen with TK. Over the last 18 or so years, this very thing has been discussed endlessly. He's never going to release it. Sorry to say for all of us, especially the modders that can really use some additional features.

[Coupi]

TK has forgotten us... abandoned us ages ago ! He doesn't even react to the tremendous efforts modders are making to get the best out of the game. 

[Sundowner]

I think that eventually some-one will use AI and reverse engineer or whatever it's called to allow more features or flexibility with the game itself.

When it happens some folks will go mad shouting it's unethical or even pirated use of the original game files, but after 20 odd years I personally really don't care.

If the resulting mods are too "borderline " to get from here I will get them from somewhere else.

Let's not forget that in the very early days that nearly all of the object mods were being made from pirate copies of 3ds max and photoshop. Those mods are what made the game so attractive & TK never seemed really bothered where they came from either. It was the TW F-4E model that "miraculously" showed up in one of the beta packages that is the great,great, great grandaddy of every F-4 model released since.

If we can get more tools like the great tools produced by mue and gerwin produced by using AI then I'm all for it.

[madvad]

There is a tool on GitHub that uses Claude AI to decompile practically any program. Adobe programs have been decompiled, and free versions based on them have been released to the public—with many claiming they even offer improvements over the originals.

On X, people are already showcasing projects that decompile PS5 games to run natively on PC, as well as games from other platforms running directly in the browser!

So, to answer the topic's question: yes, I believe it is just a matter of time and dedication before the TW engine is decompiled and its inner workings laid bare, allowing anyone with the right knowledge to implement whatever modifications they want...

Is it legal? I don't know; as mentioned earlier, this falls into a new gray area where—in the vast majority of countries, at least—there is no existing legislation.

Another thing: TK himself seems to have abandoned that engine; he could use AI to evolve it with very few resources and put it up for sale on his site.
After all, he apparently complained about lacking the budget to update the game because it would require so many man-hours.
With AI, there would be no excuses—it would be fast and cheap.

Edited 15 hours ago by madvad