CA Subscriptions

[+Dave 2,322]

Well we got a lot of people who did it but many many many many who did not. We had expected many more but the numbers didn't show up. I am seriously disheartened by all this. I can't divulge the numbers until I get permission but man it missed our target by a wide margin. We have almost 32,000 members the contributions were well.....appalling. In fact what happened was when we announced this subscription thing, there was a serious spike in the downloads. People trying to get all they could. Makes me sick actually. We provided this service to the community, asked for a little help so no one person would have to foot the bill and what did we get in return? A small dent in what we needed. I think we figured out if like 5 to 10% gave we would be good to go for a long long long time. Is the site endanger of closing down? No, but the belt is going to have be tightened again to make sure we don't. I am going to add some more money into it again here in November. A lot of the people that did give were admin, moderators, and modders. I feel like the general user left us holding the bag. Say what you want etc etc etc. It is just another case of someone looking for a free lunch. What a shame.

[Icarus999 70]

Well we got a lot of people who did it but many many many many who did not. We had expected many more but the numbers didn't show up. I am seriously disheartened by all this. I can't divulge the numbers until I get permission but man it missed our target by a wide margin. We have almost 32,000 members the contributions were well.....appalling. In fact what happened was when we announced this subscription thing, there was a serious spike in the downloads. People trying to get all they could. Makes me sick actually. We provided this service to the community, asked for a little help so no one person would have to foot the bill and what did we get in return? A small dent in what we needed. I think we figured out if like 5 to 10% gave we would be good to go for a long long long time. Is the site endanger of closing down? No, but the belt is going to have be tightened again to make sure we don't. I am going to add some more money into it again here in November. A lot of the people that did give were admin, moderators, and modders. I feel like the general user left us holding the bag. Say what you want etc etc etc. It is just another case of someone looking for a free lunch. What a shame.

 

 

Unfortunately for every man of honor their are 50 without. Is it just me or does anyone else here think that it sucks that the modders.... the very same people who create all these awesome additions to the game that improve our playing experience 100 fold are having to foot the bill while 1000's of honor less turds are taking up bandwith hording free mods. When I hear people on other sim sites whining about combatace becoming "payware" and I have to laugh, these idiots seem to lack the common sense to understand that running a website like this one is an expensive proposition. Do those Tools who refuse to pony up actually think the modders who spend hundreds of hours learning their craft and developing these mods should then have to pay to put their creations in the hands of the unappreciative? Perhaps rather than just tightening the belt it is time to tighten up security at the door. As it is in every other aspect of society there are some who lack the resources to contribute monetarily, and that is fine, perhaps there is another way they can contribute; maybe they could moderate or provide a tech support and take some of the burden off others. Actually that might be a good idea - a Tech support area where knowledgeable members who might be financially challenged can contribute to the site.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Icarus999

[+Dave 2,322]

Well we won't go payware like Combatsim.com did. To stay open some of us will have to dig deeper into our pockets. I would think out of 32,000 people we would of gotten more help than we did.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Doesnt surprise me tbh - people are used to getting freebies off the net its todays culture, a lot of people may not have credit cards - and even if they are old enough probably dont want to explain to their other halves why they are spending money on a gaming site - when they can download most of it for free anyway.

 

The people who care have paid up - no surprise either - is always the way with a lot of hobbies/clubs where the few support the many - and the many have a good time - but the alternative is to have nothing.

 

If you want money you have to force the issue more - probably at the expense of more members joining etc for example You could get rid of free downloads and have a basic joining fee 1000 downloads for say $10 / £5 maybe.

 

Or you could put the best / most popular mods into an area that only paid up members can access.

 

Before you do that though I would suggest having a very big banner on the Home page - making it much clearer than it currently is that subscription is here and its purpose to support the site.

[+Dave 2,322]

Before you do that though I would suggest having a very big banner on the Home page - making it much clearer than it currently is that subscription is here and its purpose to support the site.

 

I disagree, people know what it is. Its on every page you go to when you download something. To drive my point further, 101 people have read this post and very little response. So disappointing.

[hanker422 0]

I agree! I do not have the skill to make these great mods to the game and I enjoy the site very much so as of today I am a paid member and will continue to support this site! I hope other that are like me that come to the site to enhance their game will do the same! This site has made the TK sims the best I have played and am glad to add help to support it! I love the planes and things that are added to this game from this site so cmon people lets all do our part! It's well worth it! And to all the great people that add such cool downloads here keep up the great work! Thanks! Love this site!

[hanker422 0]

Sorry ment TW games hehe am at work and in a hurry!

[Nesher 628]

Dave, what about using ads as a way to help...?

lots of sites use them (like google ads...) and i think it's "a small price to pay"

inorder to enjoy this site (when your not helping directly)... paying members will enjoy if possible ad-free site...

[+wilco 11]

Why not reduce the downloads per day for non-paying members? That would save some bandwidth without turning CA into a 'members only - contribute or die' club. I'll renew my subscription anyway...

[MaverickMike 10]

I use this website quite often and didnt realise that youy can contribute to the site

 

How much does it cost to become a paying member and how do i go about it?

[GreyCap 0]

I don't feel like I need to justify why I'm not sending money to a free website, but I'll do it anyways. The long and short of it is that I'm unemployed and I barely have money right now for myself. There might be many people in such a situation.

Blast advertisement at me untill my eyes fall out, I'll even click on all the banners, I don't care. Or turn this site into a paysite, and lock me out. But sorry, I can't pay anything right now.

[manlyman564 0]

hi

i suscribed to ca only for a month when it up i plan on suscribing longer

[KingAlbert 0]

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa,

 

as of now I am a choice member. I decided to pay because of 3 reasons:

1. this thread (the kick in the butt so to speak)

2. i uploaded files myself

3. It would not be honest to post the comment below without having paid for a subscription.

 

I am quite sure that most (paying) posters in this thread will write that non-paying users are thiefs, lame or whatever derogative word they can imagine to describe them.

 

But I like to be the voice of "reason", the devils advocate or the businessman (pick whatever you like). in doing so I realise a couple of things:

1. the owner and people who maintain this site won't probably like what i write and it will be blunt towards them. (hence i paid a subscription to put my money where my mouth is)

2. whatever I write, does not excuse me for waiting so long with paying for a subscription

3. whatever I write, it will generate a lot of flak going in my direction (but that's the price to be paid for speaking out)

 

I agree that maintaining this site is a costly affaire. From what I read on the subscription post, the main costs are:

1. Bandwith

2. Storage space

 

IMHO If you need to recoup those costs you can choose out of 2 models (which I'll discuss both):

1. a business model

2. a charity model

 

Whatever model you choose, the basic line remains that you need to offer people something in return for their money.

 

1/ business model

 

This model assumes that you offer a service or product for which consumers are willing to pay.

 

Basicly their are two products offered on this site:

a) a forum

b) download section (with mods, files etc)

 

There are 3 kinds of consumers on the site:

a) forum-posters

Consumers who read the forum and post messages. What do they get with the current subscription fees? More storage capacity and unlimited access to downloads which they don't need. They also get more profile features and posting benefits. By now its clear that most forum-posters don't need those things, so why should they pay for something they don't need?

 

b) downloaders

Consumers who download files and mods. What do they get with the subscription fee? unlimited access? They already have a free, albeit limited, access. So as long as they don't need to download more then the free amount they get, it is in no interest to them to pay for a subscription.

 

c) uploaders

Consumers who spent time, creating something and now post it on CA to share it with the community. What do they get for the subscription fee: larger storage. But as long as their current storage requirements do not exceed the allocated free amount, there is no need for them to pay.

 

2/ the charity model

 

This model assumes that, in exchange for their money, the consumers get that fuzzy feeling that they did something good.

 

However, charity needs to be sold too (trust me I speak from experience). Just putting a banner asking for people to pay, won't work. It's too easy to ignore (it's like the beggar in the subway station, putting a paper cup in front of him while he sleeps. None of them ever made it to millionaire).

 

If you want to sell charity, you need to be in peoples face. People need to see the effect of support or non support (in case of CA that might include threathening to close the site).

 

So with those two models, whom should be asked for money?

 

In the charity model, this means everybody. Whatever you do on this site, it should put you face to face with a request for subscription. This would also mean that the users should be regulary informed about the current financial need of the site. Sites that work with this system, often put banners stating their required subscription target and how for off they are from reaching that target.

 

In the business model, there are 3 parties you can charge.

 

1/ the forum-posters

 

You could grant them access to the forum if they pay for it. In that case, imho, this site could close immediately. There are plenty of other forums that are for free so everybody would move to those forums.

 

2/ downloaders

 

One could charge them for downloading material or put special material up for paying members only. Luckily enough the owner already stated that that option is not on the table. That's because this concept yields to major pitfalls:

a) the owner of this site does not own all of the content that is provided

b) paying downloads are in direct violation with agreements like the Freeware Licensing which specifically states

"The work may not be used in payware projects or in projects that will not be freely distributed under these same terms."

 

Asking money for downloads, would certainly lead to uploaders removing their material (i would), which in turn would drive downloaders away because of lack of content (further reducing the income)

 

3/ uploaders

 

Another possibility is charging uploaders, for the amount of data they upload. Of all the involved parties, uploaders are the ones who actually exchange economic value with the site. The relationship CA - uploaders is also more in line with the economic model that exists throughout the web.

 

What to do next?

 

First of all, subscriptions need more visibility (this thread is already a start). Then the owner needs to decide:

a) go for charity- which will require a more in the face approach

b) go for the business style, where imho the only viable option is making uploaders pay. In that case the owner will need to formulate a proposition or upload model.

 

My final thoughts

 

I have subcribed by now, because I uploaded some files. As a user, I think the free aspect of the downloads, is what makes this site unique and popular. As an uploader, I can accept that I would be charged for the file storage, provided it's fair deal for me.

 

In the end, the final decision remains with the owner of the site. He decides how to recoup all or part of his money and whether or not it's time to cut his losses and give up the site.

 

Regards

KingAlbert

[ezlead 42]

Sorry Dave:

No extra dough right now.

I got layed off. Wife working to make ends meet.

When I can,you bet your a-- I will.

[+Dave 2,322]

People that don't have the cash I understand. Not a problem. Its the people who have the means and just refuse to.

 

King Albert you theory is very flawed because we are not in it to make money we just want the means to keep the site open. Are we in danger of closing, no, but are the expenses there, yes. So a little help is not much to ask.

[+Dave 2,322]

One thing we will not do is ever become a payware site. The worst thing that could happen (barring actually closing) is that we limit the downloads etc. Not because we are being pricks but to save money to stay open. I think that should be the main goal. No one will have to pay to post in the forums or even being able to just become a member at all. Not going to happen.

[+Typhoid 231]

Dave,

 

putting my (ancient) business administration major hat on;

 

your key expense, if I understand it at all (doubtful...) is for bandwidth and site maintenance. That fluctuates with your traffic (correct? or not?).

 

so my initial thought is right along with your initial subscription plan where you have access levels depending on subscription level. Can you put a limit on number and size of downloads (I know you have but bear with me for a minute)? have to be a paid member to upload a file? number of postings limited by level?

 

that way you could leave the casual user at the free but limited level, as you already have, but perhaps at a much tighter level. Then for the rest of us who paid in we get a varying level of the above priviliges up to the unlimited for the top level payers.

 

Set the free download limit at a level that will block the higher downloads such as the comprehensive packages (OTC, NATO Fighters, Falklands, DS and maybe even the larger aircraft models and high definition skins) In other words, for the basic and free registration, you get a very basic level of access. Just enough to whet their appetites for more. (kind of like crack dealing.......)

 

Implement without warning!

 

---------

 

Now all should consider this. For the basic sims you have to shell $$$ out to get those sims, whichever ones they are. For the expansion packs through the developer, you also have to shell $$$ out to get them.

 

What you get here for peanuts, or for nothing, are entire games and expansion packs of astonishing fidelity. The time and effort of hobbyists are producing for all some incredibly detailed stuff including terrains, missions, campaigns, object models, etc. Of particular note, the full packages such as NATO Fighters, OTC, Falklands, and the upcoming Desert Storm packages are essentially entire new games with new interfaces which are of a similar value as the original games. And right now these are free.

 

I do not begrudge those at all who cannot due to temporary circumstances. Such things happen and I have faced that myself at one time as will at some time almost everyone. When and if conditions change, then so should your contribution here when and if able, if you take advantage of the products offered here.

 

Those of us who have actually studied real economics (not the various Karl Marx deviations thereof) all understand one very key and basic law that is absolutely true and irefutable.

 

There is no Free Lunch!! Not ever.

[GwynO 16]

RANT ON:

It sucks massively that only relatively very few people on this site have contributed to the running costs, I seriously doubt that the same people have not downloaded content and benefited from of the backs of the founders. There are many many memberships going back a couple years or more with little or no posts to their name, as a community we are surrounded by many more members than we know, who probably read these threads regardless purely on the off chance they spy a goody to download with no thought of contribution or fraternity at all, the fact is that the internet is full of such leeching self centred behaviour (e.g. p2p down loaders vs up loaders).

 

So what about all the people who do feel some kind of fraternity towards this community but don't contribute, I doubt all of us are stone broke and incapable of taking the load off the few owners/founders/admins shoulders. I guess it's just too easy for people to think that because the net is full of freeloading that it's the normal thing to do, that it doesn't harm anyone. If and when the costs make it unrealistic to run this site any more, the people who will be first to forget all about it and move onto the next free pasture of the net well congratulations, but the rest of us that enjoy these games, the community and the site, please guys and girls lets all lend a hand.

 

If keeping this site up means limiting downloads to one a week, then so be it imho, it's better than either payware or sinking.

 

Final thought on this, to people that do think more than just where to grab a nice freebie (as those people aren't likely to give a rats a%$£ anyway), but the amount of experience that this site's information and download material has contributed to my experience of thirdwire sims is easily equal too and probably for a lot more people too, a shedload more than what you get out of the box. I don't mean to detract from TK's enormous mostly solo input, but just to ask that you consider how much more than the original game is directly accessed by us through this site, so why not contribute the price of a game to the site? If you feel your gaming experience has improved by half from the site, give the equivalent or more or less, but at least we could all spare something couldn't we? Not all the people who read these pages are apathetic users, now we just need a little more of us who can to dig into our pockets and show some respect

 

RANT OFF

[joes_shop 0]

I'm (very) new - and surprised to read this thread; I simply assumed you had to pay to be able to download and have no problem with a 6 month membership (and plan on renewing). For the amount of content and data available I consider my membership very inexpensive!

 

Regards,

 

J. Kelly

[+Jug 99]

Well we won't go payware like Combatsim.com did. To stay open some of us will have to dig deeper into our pockets. I would think out of 32,000 people we would of gotten more help than we did.

Well, I signed up and for the hours of enjoyment I have received from our wonderful and talented modder community and it has been worth every cent and then some. I will be glad to sign up for some worthless toad that cannot see the value added from his/her contribution. Lots of talk about honor here and respect for honor. Time to show what you're made of. If you are a person that sees themselves as a person of honor, then you have to act like it. You cannot maintain the facade long, even in your own mind, if you don't. Cough up guys, because it is the right thing to do.

[+Dave 2,322]

We do appreciate all those that have though.

[FalconC45 162]

If you guys accept CC or checks, I'll sign up. If I remember correctly, you guys only accept paypal?

 

Falcon

[WDH 0]

You got me!Just donated and subscribed today...My brother is too.I'm not doing this out of pressure todo so.I'm doing it because it's the RIGHT thing todo and download mods aleast 30 times a month.

[+Dave 2,322]

Thank you WDH.

[Nesher 628]

what about my idea Dave??

think about it.. ;)