Fury

[ironroad]

Was released in some US theaters last night, "officially" came out today.

 

Who is seeing it?

 

If I weren't half sleep from working a long shift I would be in line right now.

 

Edited October 17, 2014 by ironroad

[MigBuster]

Yes - its out on the 22nd here - the trailers been out a while - so will see it over the next few weeks - should be good.

 

Strangely will be the second War film (kinda) in a few weeks at the flicks - saw 71 - set in 1971 Belfast - this week (v good also)

 

[macelena]

Crazyhorse freaked out when i showed the early trailer before summer, so you can count on him. I´m not so sure i´ll  be able to, but sure i wish i could

[+daddyairplanes]

Not too bad a movie, esp when one turns the mind off and remembers its just a movie.

Read somewhere the last working Tiger tank is featured in the film. The planes and tracers are CGI'd in, but the tanks were certainly real

[Capitaine Vengeur]

Brad Pitt was interviewed at the French TV this evening. Sure I'll go and watch, and possibly appreciate it, if it is a good small-crew story, "Memphis Belle" style. I just hope they won't overdo the usual Hollywood paper heroism. For example, the band of heroes here has to face Tiger tanks, of course no less, not the less impressive yet sturdy and dangerous SPGs that were most commonly met by that stage of the War...

[+Dave]

Yeah CB34 gave me a run down on it and he gave it a resounding 2 thumbs up.

[+CrazyhorseB34]

Yes I liked it very much.

[Fubar512]

Just saw it this evening.  It was as intense and graphic as any flick that I've seen to date, so one may want to think twice before taking young children to see it.  The body count at the end was typical Hollywood, but all in all, I found it an entertaining experience.

 

BTW,  I went to an AMC theatre that featured electric recliners, ala Lazy-Boy, with so much room between rows that one could easily squeeze by even with the foot-rests of the adjacent seats full extended.  It was a treat.

 

 

My favorite scene:

 

Edited October 31, 2014 by Fubar512

[Capitaine Vengeur]

Just watched it this morning: good mark. I find that Germany turned mad, ruled by Götterdämmerung fanatics, bogged into the April mud, is a much better stage than Normandy in Summer seen in "Saving Private Ryan". The soundtrack works fine too, supporting the apocalyptic ambiance. Good scene with the stream of heavy bombers passing high, letting countless white trails behind: a true Twilight of the Gods.

 

The asymmetrical crew of odd characters spending their time bawling out each other, a delight for any psychanalyst, is typical Hollywood, but would be a whole crew of burnt losers in real action. We find the usual raw stereotypes with the Bible-licker, the unreedemable toerag (how could such an ugly tall ape be assigned into a small tank!?), the ethnic minority, the ingenuous boy-scout... Brad Pitt is some repetition of Tom Hanks in "Saving Private Ryan": a well-educated man, yet a living god and war emblem for his gang of beasts, breathing war yet still having some heart.

 

During the first part of the movie, I found quite realistic the obstacles met by the advancing Yanks: harassment by mines and small AT teams waiting in cover, AT guns at the edge of the woods, MG nests in the towns, sporadic fire from enemy arty... It reminded me of encounters experienced in my favorite solitary boardgame, "Patton's Best" (Avalon Hill 1987), a jewel. This running part of the movie got me in the mood for letting the game out of the locker. Things get somewhat odd from the clash with the lone Tiger (Fubar's scene above). Why would this tank wait next to some small grove in the middle of large open fields, hidden from the road but spottable by any of the ubiquitous Allied Jabo? And why would the Yanks, having reached pistol range, dance a dangerous tango around the Tiger rather than just ramming it straight on, to neutralize the advantage of its terrible 88 and put the chances on an even sharing in close combat? Some other Allied crews did it in real history

 

And things get completely wrong with the final battle of Alamo. Typical Hollywood: 5 Yank heroes locked into a disabled coffin, versus 200 SS at close range with Panzerfausts? No sweat, will be back by lunch. The tactics (or rather lack of any tactics) displayed there by the Krauts are irrealistically dumb and expensive, with cannon fodder keeping on running stupidly around the immobile tank, while their marching column had been seen previously with Panzerfausts ready to use at shoulder, about one for 10-12 men. The crew should have survived for the duration of a cigarette butt (for besides, they did not even think to empty the tank fuel before the pitched battle). Fubar is right, the last vertical pic giving some idea of the body count around the disabled tank is telling, but really, I don't buy the Alamo thing. Yet, I can't but recommend "Fury" as a movie to be seen by all addicts of rolling armor.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Capitaine Vengeur

[+Gepard]

Its astonishing how similar are american and soviet WW2 movies. All american/soviet soldiers are great heros, smart, brave invincible. The Krauts/Fritzuji are dumb cowards.

"Fury" has some good points. The effects are nice, but seen from tactical and technical poit of view it is ridiculus. Its like George Lucas "Red Tails" nonsense.

[+Dave]

Its astonishing how similar are american and soviet WW2 movies. All american/soviet soldiers are great heros, smart, brave invincible. The Krauts/Fritzuji are dumb cowards.

"Fury" has some good points. The effects are nice, but seen from tactical and technical poit of view it is ridiculus. Its like George Lucas "Red Tails" nonsense.

 

 

I like to know where you find it tactical and technical standpoint when they had this....

 

http://gizmodo.com/how-the-cast-of-fury-trained-for-the-most-realistic-wwi-1647708935

 

 

 

 

[+Gepard]

One Sherman vs hundrets of german soldiers which are armed with Panzerfaust and the Sherman survived. LOL. This tank was known as "Tommy-Kocher" or "Ami-Kocher". One shot with Panzerfaust and the tankcrew will sit on the cloud and sing with the angles.

This picture shows a Sherman after hit by Panzerfaust. Its cooked, thatswhy "Ami-Kocher". And this would have been the end of the movie from tactical and technical standpoint. But this would not have been heroic enough for Hollywood.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Gepard

[+Dave]

Well then you can say the scenario was bogus. Not from tactical and technical standpoint then. 

[+Gepard]

I have learned to knock out tanks from close distance from the scratch. Panzernahbekämpfung was the german term. Believe me, the movieend is LOL.

[Emp_Palpatine]

Some military expert I read on French website share Gepard's opinion : the whole alamo thing is stupid. 

[+Dave]

Well what would the French know about tank warfare? They were too busy surrendering during WWII!  J/K

[Capitaine Vengeur]

Gepard, the "Tommy-Cooker" reputation of very inflammable tanks actually concerned the first versions of the Sherman. The later models like "Fury" enjoyed a "wet stowage" for ammo, storing them with more security. The game I talked about above, "Patton's Best", gives lots of tables and designer's notes to explain that. The M4, M4A1, M4A2 & M4A3 with 75mm gun do not have this option, the "Jumbo" (over-armored) models and all of models with the 76mm gun are equipped with it. In the game, a Sherman without this equipment has 75-80% chance to catch fire if hit and penetrated, only 15-20% if having "wet stowage".

 

And well, Dave, the French in WW2 scored some nice feats regarding tanks. I was talking above of historical occasions when Allied tanks facing heavy Panzers at very close range preferred to ram them straight on, rather than oddly draw esoteric circles around them hoping to have the German crew vomit. I thought especially of one occasion during the Liberation of Paris, when a French Sherman from 2e D.B. faced a big Panther across the famous Place de La Concorde. The Panther had been disabled and deceived by the French M10 "Sirocco", and Sgt Marcel Bizien's Sherman "Douaumont" rushing onto its flank could place a hit on its relatively thin turret side. But it happened to be a smoke shell! No time to reload and the Panther's turret was turning to face the new threat. So Bizien ordered to accelerate and ram the Panzer, yelling "On board!". After the clash, the German crew took advantage of the smoke to evacuate and run away. Commanding from an open cupola, Bizien was killed the moment after by a German sniper. The whole scene can be seen in the movie "Is Paris burning?" where Sgt Bizien was played by Yves Montand.

 

The main mobile group from 2e D.B. involved in the Liberation of Paris was commanded by Colonel Pierre Billotte, who had himself signed some years before another nice armored feat comparable to SS Tiger commander Michael Wittmann's famous death ride at Villers-Bocage in 1944. In may 1940, Billotte was a lieutenant and tank commander (and incidentally, he was also the son of the general commanding the French 1st Army Group, whose fate was to be trapped in the Dunkirk Pocket). During the hard-fought battle of Stonne, Ardennes (South of Sedan), Lt Billotte ventured his lone B1bis tank "Eure" into the hamlet that had just been taken back one more time by the Germans. Regarding gunnery and armor, the B1bis was in 1940 the same terror the Tiger was in 1944. Before falling back out of ammo, Lt Billotte had single-handedly scored 11 Pz.III, 2 Pz.IV, and 2 PaK36 AT guns. His tank was fleckered with over 130 hits between 37 to 75mm, none of them decisive.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Capitaine Vengeur

[Fubar512]

One thing that no one here mentioned so far, is that they used an actual Tiger 1 in the film, not some silly stand-in, like dressed-up M-48s ( as they did in Patton) or a tarted-up T34 (Kelly's Heros).

 

A much more realistic ending (given the date), would have been for the crew to have encountered an entire platoon of Tigers as they sat disabled at the crossroads.   As this seemingly overwhelming force drew within range,  the crew of the Fury prepared for what was undoubtedly going to be their last battle.  Then they notice that the turrets of their opponents were reversed. The war had ended, thus sparing all.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Fubar512

[Emp_Palpatine]

 In may 1940, Billotte was a lieutenant and tank commander (and incidentally, he was also the son of the general commanding the French 1st Army Group, whose fate was to be trapped in the Dunkirk Pocket). During the hard-fought battle of Stonne, Ardennes (South of Sedan), Lt Billotte ventured his lone B1bis tank "Eure" into the hamlet that had just been taken back one more time by the Germans. Regarding gunnery and armor, the B1bis was in 1940 the same terror the Tiger was in 1944. Before falling back out of ammo, Lt Billotte had single-handedly scored 11 Pz.III, 2 Pz.IV, and 2 PaK36 AT guns. His tank was fleckered with over 130 hits between 37 to 75mm, none of them decisive.

Too busy surrendering, indeed.

 

Billote senior was also KIA. 

[+Dave]

Too busy surrendering, indeed.

 

It was a joke.....its not a dick, don't take it so hard.  

[Capitaine Vengeur]

I have learned to knock out tanks from close distance from the scratch. Panzernahbekämpfung was the german term. Believe me, the movieend is LOL.

By the way Gepard, what was the field of equipment and training for that matter in the DDR Army? Portable launchers? Magnetic mines or sticky bombs? Mining and camouflaged ambushes on mandatory ways of advance or retreat? Camouflaged ditch traps? Use of unstable rubble in urban combat? Yet several of these means can work only against moving tanks.

[+Gepard]

By the way Gepard, what was the field of equipment and training for that matter in the DDR Army? Portable launchers? Magnetic mines or sticky bombs? Mining and camouflaged ambushes on mandatory ways of advance or retreat? Camouflaged ditch traps? Use of unstable rubble in urban combat? Yet several of these means can work only against moving tanks.

 

This will become a little bit OT and has few to do with the movie "Fury".

But okay. There was a lot of training i had, starting with molotow cocktail, anti tank handgranade, RPG-7 (only a short introduction), RPG-18 (a lot of time), anti tank mines, making of geballte Ladung (dont know the english term), detecting weak and strong points of panzers, creep into the "dead zones" of a panzer and so on and so on and so on. What a waste of time.

I made some mobilephonephotos of my old military handbook which covers a little bit basic knowledge of Panzernahbekämpfung.

 

 

The more important handbook "Panzernahbekämpfung moderner Panzer und Schützenpanzer der NATO" i have at home too. But i will not release pages here, because I dont know, who will read it and i dont want to give the know how to kill an Abrams in wrong hands.

[JediMaster]

Molotov's? Really? I would've thought that far too ineffective in a modern (ie post-Korea) conflct.

[+Gepard]

One molotov cocktail is to less, because modern tanks have Freon anti fire systems. But this systems can be activated only 2 or 3 times.

Translated text from the handbook:

"With a molotov cocktail a tank of the opponent cant be annihilated, but harmed efficiently. A well placed molotov cocktail makes a tank unable to move and under certain circumstances it forced the crew to bail out. ..." Then follows the description how to made a molotov cocktail.

 

Personally i liked the "geballte Ladung" much more, because we could play with some kilograms of Semtex (czech plastic explosive relativly similar to C4). I remember that one trainer made a do it yourself shaped charge explosive device which punched easily a hole trough a T-54 turret front. Was a nice big bang. Mixing of Thermit and later igniting was fun too. Cool fireworks.

Only Napalm i disliked, it stinks pathetic.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Gepard

[jeanba]

It was a joke.....its not a dick, don't take it so hard.

With french as cowards in 2003 during the Iraqi invasion in all forums, we are a litlle sensitive about this.