MiG-21 modeling discussion.

[+Soulfreak 6,510]

On 22.6.2024 at 9:04 PM, Gepard said:

A MiG-21 version which we still need is the MiG-21-93 alias MiG-21BISON.

New cockpit canopy and windshield, chaff flare dispensers over the wingroots, deceptive jammer in the tailfin, Kopyo radar with capability of detecting a MiG-21 size fighter at 57 km and engaging two targets at the same time.

 

well, @torno got something in the oven...

 

https://combatace.com/forums/topic/51485-wip-o-trabajos-en-progreso/?do=findComment&comment=813436

 

[+Gepard 11,212]

16 hours ago, FLOGGER23 said:

BTW, no F-13 was ever camouflaged in Soviet service, am I right?

As far as i know the soviet MiG-21F-13 were all metallic in the frontline units. For air show displays some planes got red markings on upper wings and fuselage.

It may be possible, that some MiG-21F-13 were used long enough in training units to get the air superior "blue grey" skin, which came in the early 1970th or late 1960th. But i have not seen photos of a camouflaged soviet MiG-21F-13.

[Wilches 1,169]

2 hours ago, Gepard said:

As far as i know the soviet MiG-21F-13 were all metallic in the frontline units. For air show displays some planes got red markings on upper wings and fuselage.

It may be possible, that some MiG-21F-13 were used long enough in training units to get the air superior "blue grey" skin, which came in the early 1970th or late 1960th. But i have not seen photos of a camouflaged soviet MiG-21F-13.

Found this

[+Gepard 11,212]

Just now, Wilches said:

Found this

This is a MiG-21F-13 of the american Aggressor Squadron, not a soviet bird.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4477th_Test_and_Evaluation_Squadron

[+FLOGGER23 3,040]

One more (there will be lots of questions here) I have seen in the wings some panels that seem like a brass allow, or something of the kind, was this somehow visible in service? I recall I saw it (ish) in Poland and The Netherlands

[+Gepard 11,212]

The skin of the MiG-21 was made mostly by different aluminium alloys. This alloys had a slightly differnd tendency to oxigation. Thatswhy different colors of "aluminium rost".

In service the planes were always clean and polished, so had "rost" no chance.

[+Soulfreak 6,510]

MiG-21MF with Souli.😎

 

[+FLOGGER23 3,040]

Nice seen you there Carlo!

Guys, one more: as I start to work on the cockpits for the first models my question will be regarding colors, I have seen the F/F-13/PF/PFM/U and some US's as having the cockpit tubs in some sort of gray (may have seem more than one shade of gray) and black dashboards (S seems to have a black panel too) then they moved to an almost all in turquoise, (M/SM/MF/SMT/Bis/US/UM) dashboard included.

Is this about right guys?

With this i mean planes in service, i understand there were some repaints later which, possibly, will be added as time allows.

Happy to read your comments, everything helps.

 

Edited July 23 by FLOGGER23

[+Gepard 11,212]

There were two kinds of colors. Black and the strange color, which you call turquoise. Some planes came with black, the other with turquoise cockpits. Later were the blacks repainted to turquoise. It was said, that it had a psychological reason. It should "rise" the moral. The turquoise should have been better for the eyes too. It was said, that it was easier to detect the instruments. This is what i have heared during my military time.

Here some detail photos of a MiG-21 cockpit. IIRC it is a MiG-21bis cockpit, maybe a MiG-21MF cockpit.

 

EDIT: I have looked into my archive. The photos were taken at Flugplatzmuseum Cottbus. It is a MiG-21bis, subversion SAU. The MiG-21bisSAU is the version with the arrow shaped antenna under the air intake. The other version MiG-21bisLasur did not had this antenna.

 

Edited July 29 by Gepard

[+FLOGGER23 3,040]

I may need more than those pics, it's for a homework 'wink' 'wink' 

The ones you refer to as black, can they be a very dark gray as shown here:

I remember I saw this combination in the SPS-K in Lelystad in The Netherlands.

Then, I have seen this combination  with a lighter gray, another SPS, which I believe are the one represented on the actual PF/PFM models we have

 

And now I am more confused, hahahahahahaha

 

 

[Svetlin 540]

Eduard are an excellent company for highly detailed model kits and model kit upgrade sets. Here is the photo etched set they used to offer for the MiG-21F-13 cockpit:

Yes, it is not a picture of the real thing, but if Eduard went for these colours, chances are those would be close enough to the real thing. Using these colours as a base should be good enough I believe.

The photo etched set came pre-painted, so it was just a matter of cutting, folding, and glueing.

[+Gepard 11,212]

Here some pictures of a MiG-21SPS-K (MiG-21PFM with gun capability), which i had taken some years ago:

[Wrench 9,801]

damn!

all I got to ask is ....

how the hell did the pilot see where he was going???

[+EricJ 4,210]

11 minutes ago, Wrench said:

damn!

all I got to ask is ....

how the hell did the pilot see where he was going???

You know right? No wonder they had GCI...

[+Gepard 11,212]

To come back to the discussion which task had the small plates below the auxillary air intakes.

Here a small photo of an indian MiG-21bis, which is firing the GSh-23L gun.

Ths muzzle flash is astonishing big and under certain circumstances gun smoke could come into the small air intakes, if there wont be the small protection plates.

[+guuruu 5,909]

From CIA .

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82-00038R001800200001-1.pdf

[+FLOGGER23 3,040]

18 minutes ago, guuruu said:

From CIA .

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82-00038R001800200001-1.pdf

This is pure gold man! Thanks a bunch!

[OlWilly 130]

On 23.07.2024 at 5:21 PM, FLOGGER23 said:

Guys, one more: as I start to work on the cockpits for the first models my question will be regarding colors, I have seen the F/F-13/PF/PFM/U and some US's as having the cockpit tubs in some sort of gray (may have seem more than one shade of gray) and black dashboards (S seems to have a black panel too) then they moved to an almost all in turquoise, (M/SM/MF/SMT/Bis/US/UM) dashboard included.

By general rule, aircraft produced/designed in 1940s-1950s had dark gray/blackish color - MiG-15/17/19/early 21s, Tu-95, Tu-16, etc.

In mid 1960s the coloring scheme changed for greenish-blueish color with MiGs, Sukhoi went with more blue-gray colors

[+FLOGGER23 3,040]

An idea (roughly) of the pilot FOV

[+FLOGGER23 3,040]

Hey guys! Is this color good?

PF

PFM

[+EricJ 4,210]

Well it looks good to me, but that's just a minority opinion.

[Wilches 1,169]

Looks perfect! Good job!

[+Coupi 4,379]

Great ! 

[+Gepard 11,212]

Good job!

[OlWilly 130]

On 09.08.2024 at 8:49 PM, FLOGGER23 said:

Hey guys! Is this color good?

PF

PFM

Speaking of the text on the fuselage, before you release these birds send textures to someone for proofreading, me if no one else around