The KB obsession

[+Crusader 2,101]

yes, "KB" as in Knowlwdge Base

 

is it a "must have" to read and remember all of it before guys can post here on CA?

I mean, WTF ?

Those of us who are around this game for a couple of years have no prob to find a way through the mod jungle,

but the new guys ( and every new release naturally draws new guys to it) ... hey, they often want only the answer for a simple question,

and not a whole lecture about 1000 things plus a kick in the ass into the direction of the friggin KB!

And, interestingly, its always a certain group of so called" old hands" which do this s**t, they literally "jump" those new guys with the " KB- read or die" s**t,

instead of giving a simple, direct answer or, th emost simple thing, leave the question alone until someone else shows up to answere it.

Those "old hands" should know better than stepping into every friggin "trap" and go for the KB- rea dor die + kick in the ass time and time again.

The other group of the"jumpers" are those "old hand duplicate" wannabee kids, those wise mouths should switch to giving simple answers instead of

mirroring the other , older group of jumpers....

 

The KB is now a huge collection of al kinds of things related to modding TW games, but NOT a pre-requisite for everyone here on CA!

Usage is vouluntary, but reallly doesnt prohibit from asking every possible question in the forums. And those of us who read those

questionf for the X't time, hey, stay away, dont answer, or do it in a nice, short, precise thing, and if you refer to the Kb, then with a direct link to the

material which deals with the question... but not the ass kick + read the KB or die s**t!

 

CA becomes more and more like SHQ in those dark days where every fart got regulated to death!

Moderators should make sure that all goes along nicely, and not start to run this site like they see it fits to their personal preferences.

 

 

Crusader aka MJ

[+Sundowner 4,819]

Well said MJ...

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

You are right, sometimes it`s not easy to answer a question 1000 times but we have something like patience in our behaviour. So itwould be a better way to answer and refer to the KB for further question.

 

We can`t blame people for this it`s like you are asking how to get to a place and the answer would be... Buy your self a GPS Navi or die...

[JediMaster 451]

I think it's natural that those who've put a lot of time and effort into making it would feel slighted when that work is ignored or put down. Just look how many modders quit this series over the rivet counting and generally ungrateful reception their free work received. In a sense, the KB is itself a mod, it's just not one you can DL and install. It is however something you use to make the game more enjoyable, ergo it's a mod.

 

I can't argue that there have been some disproportionate responses at times, but perhaps there's a general lack of consideration of the KB's existence over all. We'd basically like the KB to be the first place people check for info rather than the last!

 

We've been trying to figure out how to raise people's awareness of it, and some are more than a little frustrated.

[Aintry 0]

Well, now I feel that I can't refer anyone to the KB anymore, for fear of rubbing someone the wrong way. So I'll just take the 'walk away' option from now on.

[+DoctorQuest 125]

I have had the same issue with "why didn't you do a search, you idiot."

 

Folks have plenty of time to post a scathing reply to a request for information, but, God forbid, they take the same time to help out.

 

In any event, there are good ways to communicate and there are bad ways to communicate. Helping someone and then pointing them to the KB is good. Bashing them over the head with the KB is not.

Edited March 24, 2008 by kirbykern

[Stick 773]

Hear, Hear... well said. But it would be unfair to imply that every old hand here acts like a fart who's never smelt his own s**t. I got a lot a lot of help too, the occasional rebuff for crass stupidity on my part, but ultimately the game is a lonely one. We learn from our mistakes and though that road may be well trodden, a few signs wouldnt hurt. The KB can be daunting. The first time I looked at it I was flummoxed.

 

Every one of us has acted like an arse at some point of our lives. The trick is to know when. Alas that is not included in the read me.

[gerald14 0]

I understand what you mean MJ! Sometimes don't get mad or anything just ignore if you can't handle it. Other than that I agree. I understand if it is like a FM help and info for making a new mod but simple questions is what I ignore.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

I think the KB is a noce addition but when ou look closer it`s a mod for those who are around here for a specific time.

 

Imagine you buy this game and want to know after 2 <--- days of playing how to mod and improve the game. So, what do you do? you start asking questions. What do you want = answers so it`s nice for everyone who is new around to get an answer and a nice info about the KB.

 

Must say CA is not like Simhq.. it was my favorite place but I leaved it some years ago as it started to be .... strange. Here the community is nice and friendly, especially when you use smileys in your comments <-- important to me cmon!!

 

Hope you understand my statement!

 

Cheers

[JediMaster 451]

If anyone has some useful tips on making the KB easier to use, please submit them! We're open to improvements that will help.

[Aintry 0]

If anyone has some useful tips on making the KB easier to use, please submit them! We're open to improvements that will help.

 

It's fine they way it is, so far as I'm concerned.

[+DoctorQuest 125]

If anyone has some useful tips on making the KB easier to use, please submit them! We're open to improvements that will help.

 

I am not sure it's a usability thing as much as an attitude thing.

 

But the search function needs to be looked at. I did a search on "adding aircraft" in the KB forum and got nothing.

 

I think most of us realize how much work it is to maintain a site like this. The KB is a great idea. But I'm not sure everyone does a full browse of the website first time to realize it is there and POLITELY pointing them in the right direction does not cost you much.

[Viggen 644]

When I first joined and asked a question, I never had a person asking me to use the KB. They answered my question and went off on there day. I can remember PMing Wrench a question (or 30) and he answered them all politely. Since the end of 2007 I have seen more "CHECK THE DAMN KB!" (admittedly I have asked people my self if they checked the old KB). Last week being a rather good example. Yes I can Imagen that it is a maintenance headache on the upkeep, but, at least keep your cool when talking about this stuff.

 

I have found the KB to be unspecific to things, being more universal. Personally I found the old KB more helpful. Much rather than check several different areas to find what I need, I went a page or two back. Also just remember: The Search Button isn't very useful.

 

Unfortunately and dare I say it, egos have started to become a problem once again. Mine included so don't call me a hypocrite. These could be a part of the problem.

Edited March 24, 2008 by JA 37 Viggen

[+Sundowner 4,819]

If anyone has some useful tips on making the KB easier to use, please submit them! We're open to improvements that will help.

 

 

Maybe if the KB were to be "permanently open" so to speak, so that folks could see the basic sub parts of it without having to go hunting, there's no doubt that just about every question can be answered in there....its getting people in the right direction in the first place thats the problem.

[column5 63]

I have said before that people who will not first search for answers to their question are being disrespectful to the rest of the community. They want someone to stop and take time to give them a custom answer when the information they need is very often already posted in the KB or available through a search.

 

I don't know why there is such resistance to searching first, and asking questions later. I know that when I have a question about anything, be it a flight sim or a car question or whatever, I go to websites and search first, before I post a question. Its common sense to realize that most problems are not unique, and that any problem is likely to have been encountered by someone else before you.

 

So I have to respectfully disagree with MJ on this issue. It is not unreasonable to expect people to search the site and use the KB before posting questions.

 

That said, I don't care for the new KB layout...it doesn't lead one intuitively to the right section for specific questions.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Gawd - theres nothing wrong with pushing people in the direction of the KB or the search function also IMO - its an essential thing with games with such a large and complicated scope as these - if you dont understand whats there then come back and ask.

 

For example some rookie was asking me to make a video of how to beat the F-22 in Falcon 4 - despite the fact that he could have found vids and threads on the subject in about 5 mins - nothing difficult to understand in any of that really.

 

Although I dont agree with sending people to look out of spite - I do agree that anyone who comes on here should get in the habit of searching for things themselves for the long term - particularly as no one is obliged or paid to actually give any help out what so ever!.

 

So yes he who doesnt ask remains a fool forever (old quote) - but he who cant be arsed to use the search remains in the dark forever (new quote).

 

that being said I do help people myself if I know the answer.

[+Dave 2,322]

Well here are my thoughts on it. We built the KB because people ask the same questions over and over again. We built the KB to help people with the big issues they have when start into this series. We built the KB to help. Because if we didn't people would say "Hey can't we have something thats tell us how to do this or that?" So we put it up there and looks now everyone gets upset because we refer people to it. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Some do not know the amount of work we have put into it. Yes we can do it more politely. And we will. New guys will be better taken care of. I will make sure of that personally. But I won't stop referring people to the most basic questions. That is why we put it in there. Even one better, do you all want it or not? I can get rid of it and then let people answer as they want. Up to you all.

 

People are going to be people, answering the same questions does get old. So I am backing MJ's advice. Don't answer if you can't be nice. Help the new guys out. If you refer them to the KB then put the link in there they need to be at. HELP them.

 

As far as this becoming like SimHQ, not even close. There isn't any hit an run trolls, no patch whiners. There isn't any Stiglr's around. Sorry not here.

[+Sundowner 4,819]

Keep the kb.......if only for me..

[+snapper 21 799]

I say keep the kb as well, it does take a little more to navigate now, but still has all the good info. Besides where will Wrench write his bible?

 

O/T slightly could we not have the file announcments for just that, the poster saying the file is there. Any discussion maybe in the general discussion forum, the number of old files that get dragged to the top makes it hard to see the new ones

 

Anyway cheers for the kb and to Wrench for his Bible

 

 

Snapper 21

[+Baltika 85]

The KB is a goldmine, I couldn't do without it.

 

For those who haven't seen the light, I'll certainly give them a friendly pointer in the right direction

 

The only patch whine I have is that I'm itching to update my completed and WIP campaigns to take advantage of the new features

[Heck 496]

Please don't get rid of the KB. I use it all the time. Thanks.

 

Heck

[GreyCap 0]

yes, "KB" as in Knowlwdge Base

 

is it a "must have" to read and remember all of it before guys can post here on CA?

I mean, WTF ?

Those of us who are around this game for a couple of years have no prob to find a way through the mod jungle,

but the new guys ( and every new release naturally draws new guys to it) ... hey, they often want only the answer for a simple question,

and not a whole lecture about 1000 things plus a kick in the ass into the direction of the friggin KB!

And, interestingly, its always a certain group of so called" old hands" which do this s**t, they literally "jump" those new guys with the " KB- read or die" s**t,

instead of giving a simple, direct answer or, th emost simple thing, leave the question alone until someone else shows up to answere it.

Those "old hands" should know better than stepping into every friggin "trap" and go for the KB- rea dor die + kick in the ass time and time again.

The other group of the"jumpers" are those "old hand duplicate" wannabee kids, those wise mouths should switch to giving simple answers instead of

mirroring the other , older group of jumpers....

 

The KB is now a huge collection of al kinds of things related to modding TW games, but NOT a pre-requisite for everyone here on CA!

Usage is vouluntary, but reallly doesnt prohibit from asking every possible question in the forums. And those of us who read those

questionf for the X't time, hey, stay away, dont answer, or do it in a nice, short, precise thing, and if you refer to the Kb, then with a direct link to the

material which deals with the question... but not the ass kick + read the KB or die s**t!

 

CA becomes more and more like SHQ in those dark days where every fart got regulated to death!

Moderators should make sure that all goes along nicely, and not start to run this site like they see it fits to their personal preferences.

 

 

Crusader aka MJ

 

My thoughts exactly, well said.

[Wrench 9,848]

I agree, it does need some 'rearranging'...even I found it a little difficult to navigate. It's still a work-in-progress, so things can always be changed to ease the brain-strain

 

We'd thought that breaking it down into the various sections, Beginngers, Intermeaditate (sp?) and Advanced would be better...obviously it's not working as well as we'd hoped...

 

So let's hear some iders guys!! How do you think in should be set up, to make if easy for someone just coming into the sim to find things???

 

Seperate threads like we had before, or something similiar to now, but with easier navigation?? Direct Links? Give us some direction, and that's the road we'll try to follow

 

WRench

kevin stein

[Viggen 644]

Beginngers, Intermeaditate (sp?) and Advanced would be better

 

It sounds like a good idea, but the stock new guy may only go in the beginners, and so on.

 

If I were making the KB, I would have a section for the questions that are always asked. Also perhaps making a sticky at the General Discussion, Modding and Skinning, Campaigns and Missions, and Fictional and What if? saying to look at the KB before posting a problem and or question. Perhaps have rules for the CombatACE Third Wire forums that include these as well.

 

Just my $.37

Edited March 25, 2008 by JA 37 Viggen

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Jedi::

If anyone has some useful tips on making the KB easier to use, please submit them! We're open to improvements that will help.

Nobody can spell it. Crusader is the only one here who tried, but even he/she failed miserably. I see its called "KB" now in general poasting conversation.

 

I've always called it the Brain Base, otherwise I always have to stop and slowly think through the "K" word to spell it out.

 

Brain Base. Its a bit spanky, less intimidating, and implies a touch of light hearted fun in a tricky subject.