May 11 updates out now!

[malibu43]

Well, this is a bummer. I can say with 100% confidence that I will not continue patching or buying any future Expansion Packs if it is going to screw up the draw distance for trees, buildings, etc...

 

I think TK is making a bad decision here.

 

*Edit* - I've changed my mind. This isn't the end of the world. I will continue supporting TK (as my bank account allows). I also edited my post on the TW boards.

Edited May 26, 2011 by malibu43

[+Sundowner]

Well, this is a bummer. I can say with 100% confidence that I will not continue patching or buying any future Expansion Packs if it is going to screw up the draw distance for trees, buildings, etc...

 

I think TK is making a bad decision here.

 

 

Agreed, this is a real kick in the balls for our terrain guys who have worked so hard to work wonders with TK's barren,lifeless terrains.

[+daddyairplanes]

well to answer my question from earlier he did change the squadronlist ini also. changes up a personal mod of mine once again andthe NATO Fighters guys want to take note. it adds a lot of belgian, german and french units in game stock and the point of divergence from the last pach seems to be #288. for the general info out there

[malibu43]

Expressed my concern at the TW boards.

[+PureBlue]

I think I'll stay with the previous patch.

With DetailMeshSize=12. Giving 3 times more draw distance, with little or no performance penalty. And I don't get any more z-buffer issues then the May2011 patch...

TK's stated reasons for the change, make no sense to me at all.

[SopmodMikeFour]

Very upset that they took out the ability of success if a AI team mate kills target.That's ridiculous. We need to find a way to circumvent this.

Also this may patch killed every one of my saved games and it removed all the intro screens for my modded campaigns like Falklands and Taiwan,even though I have them in mod folders. :angry2:I also do not see a DLC in the menu,maybe because I am using mods?No clue.

Edited May 24, 2011 by SopmodMikeFour

[+Julhelm]

It's funny how he complains about cost all the time while Combat Helo which is developed by a two man team looks infinitely better and more contemporary.

[Murphy'S]

if it continue this way, i think the divorce between modders and TK will be pronouced in a short time (this time people are not talking about a bug but about a "game orientation" which is a far worse subject)

[+Julhelm]

And remember that our "average" customers use Intel built-in chips

I have a hard time buying that statement, along with all the other usual excuses.

[SopmodMikeFour]

I have a hard time buying that statement, along with all the other usual excuses.

 

I agree.He should provide proof as to the majority using intel chips if he is going to make an unproven claim like that.I have used AMD since I got rid of a P4 years ago.I stick with Phenom.

Edited May 24, 2011 by SopmodMikeFour

[malibu43]

I have a hard time buying that statement, along with all the other usual excuses.

 

Well, on the one hand, I was using an intel chip until about a month ago. Not that I was the average user - just pointing out that it did happen. And I was under the hood just as much as anyone else.

 

But, that being said, I was using an intel chip from 2007 and getting 30 fps with tree mods, horizon distance at normal, and ground objects at normal. So, TK is 100% wrong by using the intel chip thing as an excuse for cutting back draw distance.

 

And besides, if that was an issue, why wouldn't he just make the "near" setting very near, but leave "far" and "very far" where they were? I don't understand why he needs to remove the scaleability of the game. He should be increasing it instead.

Edited May 24, 2011 by malibu43

[+Julhelm]

Also it's funny how the studio I was at could afford to have 3 full-time programmers with much less than his sales.

[+ojcar]

Well, too much terrain issues. Trees are a must have in Vietnam. I think I'll stay in December patch, but....How about the incoming MiG Alley mod???

[+DanW]

It's threads like this why I keep telling TK to get a real job and quit making games Some days you can't win and everyone is smarter than you.

Edited May 24, 2011 by DanW

[Caesar]

Well, DanW, for your situational awareness, I happen to enjoy the new patch and continue to support TK's decisions, so you can tell him that. Gets me higher frame rates consistently and that's what I need in the air to air fight! (Or bombing from 30K feet). Suffice to say, I do hope our terrain gurus do find a workaround, but I'm pretty satisfied with the patch.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Caesar

[+ianh755]

I think Baltika's post on the TW forums sums up what the majority of people feel about this patch - We don't mind the changes, we just don't want to be locked out of modifying them.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hi TK' date='

 

First off, thanks for the new round of free patches. Like a lot of folks round here, I rushed to d/l and install them as soon as you released them.

 

And, like a lot of folks round here, I have enjoyed finding out what new stuff has been brought to the core games, and what is anticipated for the future for which the groundwork has been laid, but which hasn't been implemented - yet.

 

And, to even the tone of this discussion, let me just say that, like most folks round here, I truly appreciate the fact that as a game developer, you take time to listen to your customers, reply to their posts, and even implement changes that are requested/demanded/harped on about for years. Oh yeah, the free patching of all existing platforms, welcome absence of DRM, steady range of new releases, and open moddable environment is what keeps some of us coming back for years... and years. . . and years.

 

But there's the rub.

 

Whoever your average Joe is, with his Intel integrated chip, and good luck to him with that, he has not invested the years of development, research, experimentation, learning and implementation that the average poster in this thread has. If Joe Facebook can d/l a new game from Thirdwire, run it fast on his netbook, and buy the next one, he's happy, you're happy, and we're happy.

 

But the guys who have put in the hours, weeks, months, and years deconstructing your admirably open architecture series, tweaking it, modding it, adding to it, and sticking with it all the way, just feel a little bit disappointed when what was in their hands, at your hand, is taken away. And while the tone of some of the posts from my fellow modders is, in my view, perhaps overly harsh, it's only bercause we see some of our own hard work, dedication and commitment being consigned to the scrap heap. Or, at least, stuck in Jan 2011. But who among us wants that If even Lexx has bought into SF2, we all know there's no going back for any of us.

 

So, let me say, I love the new fade implementation for TOD trees and buildings. I, like a few round here, am somewhat disappointed that the fade distance is so near.

 

But what really hurts, TK, is that we can't tweak it any more We have had the keys to the kingdom, and they've been taken away.

 

We don't want a slider on the GUI, or a mode for infinite everything. Just let us do what we've been doing for years, and fiddle with an ini file somewhere to bash the thing out by a few of km. Joe Facebook won't even notice.

 

The point has been made, that for a lot of the vociferous, creative, productive folks round here, it's the fact you can fiddle with just about everything in the TW games that keeps them fresh. No-one is disputing that out of the box they are great entertainment, and no-one, I imagine, will be looking for a refund on the back of May 2011. Au contraire, mon brave.

 

In fact, I bought FE2 direct d/l today to run on my dual-core, 4Gb, Win7, Geforce dedicated graphics chip (330M 1GB) laptop. And it runs great. Jan Tuma's seasoned tileset and tree/buildings mod makes it even better. The TW obsession continues, but it is a two way street, exactly because that's how it's been built.

 

BTW, I have purchased, over the years, SFP1, SFG, WOV, WOE, WOI, FE, FE EP 1, SF2 Combo Pack, SF2 EP 1, SF2 EP 2, and FE2.

 

No doubt I will buy SF2: Tomcat as well. Good job there aren't many trees on Iceland

 

Here's to the next ten years, and thanks for all of it 8)

 

Baltika[/quote']

 

[SopmodMikeFour]

I don't know what the issue is with frame rates.I have always ran the SF1 and 2 series maxed out and never had any lag issues even on a dual core before I upgraded to a quad.I don't think tree fade was needed at all and at least we should of been given a choice to select it or not in settings.

Edited May 25, 2011 by SopmodMikeFour

[Lexx_Luthor]

By built in Intel chips, TK means grafix chips integrated into the motherboard, instead of real gaming video cards. Intel's grafix chips are world famous for dirt poor non-performance. Most of the motherboards in the world use Intel integrated grafix without gaming cards. I too find it odd that TK's customers are doing this, but then, as we all know, TK does not make hard core computer games to compete with the Shooters. There may be a good number of souls who buy THE SF as a lite fun game or for use on laptops, as basic entertainment, to get away from the day's work. Who knows?

[+Gr.Viper]

Steam Hardware and Software Survey, April 2011

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

[liamp51]

Ugghh...I'm really beginning to get fed up with this whole Tree/Building fading thing. It has really screwed up my plans/efforts in making the Vietnam Air War short movie I was working on. It wouldn't be so much of a problem if the movie took place on Israel , but as the title suggests, it takes place on Vietnam, exactly where this tree fading thing is the worst, and most prominent. I can't understand why it's so hard to release a small 100k hot fix like we had for the EXP2 trees not showing up bug. With all TK's computer skills, you would think this would be common sense; especially if he wants to keep his fan base. I really hope this can be fixed, it reminds me of the good ol' IL-2 days where Oleg didn't listen to anybody and kept using the same old excuses.

 

This may be the end of my movie...

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=aGmAmJFUvzM

[+Wrench]

It wouldn't be so much of a problem if the movie took place on Israel

 

why not just 'film' it over Isreal, and call it Vietnam (just like any/all of the Iron Eagle movies)???

 

---

I must say, Baltika's post is one of the most conscise and well written one I've seen in a loooooooooooooooooooong

time.

As one of the 'terraformers' involved, I agree, the TOD fade makes it a bit more diffucult to locate/place those pesky terrain object buildings. You find a spot that looks clear, and all of a sudden, a building pops into existence.

 

We WILL adapt, however. Like many old-time users, I've got them all, and well keep getting them.

 

wrench

kevin stein

[xclusiv8]

Is there a way to view the yearly income and expenses that a company makes in the USA? Over here in sweden we have websites for such things and its all open to the public. I wanna take a look at TKs claims of not having the budget.

 

TK: "And sorry, no, we can not afford to improve our terrain for free patches, we don't have that kind of budget, so you either going to have to take it or leave it. We're doing this for a tiny fraction of budget of the most 90s games"

I honestly do not belive him anymore. Some of you guys make incredible things on your spare time and TK can't even find it in his budget to plant some trees. Claiming he has a smaller budget than some games from the 90s well i just cant believe that.

 

TK philosophy is if you cant fix then control it:

TK: "Well, again, these fixes were requested by other users here. You may be okay by breaking the game, but most other people are not, and once people start complaining about it more and more here and demanding fixes for them, thats when "letting you mod the game past the point of breaking the game" become less of an asset and more of liability. We can't even start to attempt to fix z-buffer problem if users can easily break it by changing the clipping distance back, in order for us to be able to even start to fix this, we need those parameters under our control."

Has he really done anything about the z-buffer issue? Because all i am seeing is him trying to cover it up by changing the clipping distances and this thing with the trees and buildings now. In my eyes that does not fix it. It just masks it.

 

Why doesnt he just make a god damn poll asking people if they want it to be this way?

Edited May 25, 2011 by xclusiv8

[+Julhelm]

Or just get an intern from Austin University to do the graphics programming as part of his thesis work. Gets done that way here all the time.

[+Stary]

same here Julhelm (albeit in the field of architecture)

 

I don't buy the integrated chipsets thing... whole point of Series2 was to move into Dx10, and I can't say integrated GPUs are anything than plain joke about the Dx10 performance. I'm running the sims maxed out with custom draw distance, oh I take it back, used to, on a three years old 8800GT 512MB, thing you can buy these days cheaply.

 

Also I'd really love to see a survey what part of his customers are playing on laptops

 

@Baltika -now that's a great posting mate

[+Stary]

I'm sorry we came such way in this discussion, as it's very nice patch after all. Just the "locking stuff away from users (modders)" worries me big time (and no, I'm not talking about LODs here)