TMF F-14 Speed and Fuel Indicators Wrong?

[JamesWilson]

Hi everyone,

I just noticed that the speed indicator in the F-14 Tomcat by TMF (TheMirageFactory) only shows up to 800 kts, and the Mach indicator does not move, not letting you know the speed of the aircraft if you have your HUD turned off.

As you can see down here, i'm at Mach 2.23, but the indicator only shows 800 kts and doesn't go above. Obviously it adapts to my altitude, so if i'm higher, then the IAS is lower, but still should move, making it impossible flying at high speed without HUD turned on as i have it down here:

Another issue, maybe even worse than the previous one, is that the fuel indicator shows wrong numbers, or as i may think, it shows "a number less". For example: if i have 20000 pounds of fuel left, it should show 20000, but it shows 02000. This is a theory on how it works, not confirmed, and i'm gonna explain you why i think it is like that:

I hardly think i truly have 2000 pounds of fuel left, cause i choose Fuel 100% and tried climbing and flying for a long time with full afterburner, and the numbers slowly started going down, even reached the point of burning the engine at Mach 2.30and the fuel wasn't gone yet, it showed i had like 00700 left, so i presume it's 20000 in reality, otherwise i would have been out of fuel in no time, since it's a quantity even under the bingo quantity, but i flew for minutes and minutes in full afterburner, and at 8x speed, so. Speaking of Bingo, there's no bingo indicator.

Here's a picture of the fuel indicator:

I tried the default F-14 cockpit, and even if that one shows correctly both speed and fuel indicators and even if it's a great cockpit, i personally like more and find more realistic and immersive the TMF one.

In the end, since these two indicators are crucial, especially for flying without HUD, and the fuel indicator especially, since there's no way to know how much fuel you have left even with HUD turned on other than the cockpit indicator.

So, what i'm asking is:

Is there a way to fix these? A mod that remakes the indicators? Or another cockpit that is not the default one that i can use to swap this one?

Thanks in advance for helping me.

[+MigBuster]

You might be a few decades late for TMF

 

The actual F-14A NATOPS from which they probably moddelled it on tells me the airspeed dial goes from 80 to 850 knots Indicated. So as you can see in your the sceen shot the needle is on 850 kts so that looks correct.

M2.23 at 29,000 ft msl at standard day is ~M1030KCAS or ~1320KTAS

I think the real Timcat was limited to 800KIAS under 30,000ft so that might have been an overspeed.

 

Speed must have been displayed elsewhere - the HUD or the CRT display but not familiar really with F-14s.

 

 

 

[+DoctorQuest]

Might be time for you to jump into modding. I have no idea if it can be done but you could try replacing the TMF instrument with the Thirdwire instrument.

[+EricJ]

He would need the 3d models to do that, unless there is some other method that I think I don't know about, maybe.

As for the fuel it may be a glitch with the game. Some other user mentioned that and you may have to reinstall the game for the fuel issue.

[logan4]

If you look at the labels under the counter then you will see that it shows the correct value as scale 0,1LBS means *10. So nothing wrong there....only expectations.
Also there is a difference between the stock and the TMF pit, TMF pit uses left side counter with 0,1LBS scale for internal fuel ammount, the right side counter to show the external fuel ammount with LBS scale 1=1, the stock shows internal volume for the right/rear tanks.

In case you want to see all 5 digits then in the _cockpit.ini:

[TotalFuelCounter]
Type=TOTAL_FUEL_QUANTITY_INDICATOR 
CounterNodeFormat=fuel_dig%d
MovementType=ANALOG_COUNTER
ValueUnit=LB
Scale=0.1    <--------    remove this entire line

 

[bazillius]

Reinstalling is useless cuz game not changes own files. Only in mod folders.

The problem with fuel is most often in the ini file in the engine section and in the fuel section. Some aircraft can fly on afterburner for tens of minutes so this is common issue. I did not install this plane, so I can’t say anything about the TMF F-14. The only thing I can say for sure is that you don’t need to waste time on reinstallation.

Edited January 29, 2024 by bazillius

[AcariaPlainum]

9 hours ago, JamesWilson said:

 

Im not sure about the speed indicator but for the fuel its a scale thing which is set to 0.1 scale for internal. If you want the total on in pure lbs number then set the scale to 1.0 but remember the internal fuel indicator only has 4 numbers available 

Edited January 29, 2024 by Wrench
Please don't quote with images still attached, thank you

[JamesWilson]

14 hours ago, MigBuster said:

You might be a few decades late for TMF

 

The actual F-14A NATOPS from which they probably moddelled it on tells me the airspeed dial goes from 80 to 850 knots Indicated. So as you can see in your the sceen shot the needle is on 850 kts so that looks correct.

M2.23 at 29,000 ft msl at standard day is ~M1030KCAS or ~1320KTAS

I think the real Timcat was limited to 800KIAS under 30,000ft so that might have been an overspeed.

 

Speed must have been displayed elsewhere - the HUD or the CRT display but not familiar really with F-14s.

 

 

 

So it's all correct? I play MSFS and there the speed indicator moves both kts and Mach, the latter doesn't in TMF Tomcat.

In Heatblur F-14 for MSFS the Mach needle moves as soon as reached Mach 1, this one stays still and have no idea how fast i'm going.

And nope, the speed is not shown on the HUD.

Only D from late 90s had the HUD showing it, other ones only analogue.

If i'm late for TMF, is there any other out there?

Edited January 30, 2024 by JamesWilson

[JamesWilson]

13 hours ago, logan4 said:

If you look at the labels under the counter then you will see that it shows the correct value as scale 0,1LBS means *10. So nothing wrong there....only expectations.
Also there is a difference between the stock and the TMF pit, TMF pit uses left side counter with 0,1LBS scale for internal fuel ammount, the right side counter to show the external fuel ammount with LBS scale 1=1, the stock shows internal volume for the right/rear tanks.

In case you want to see all 5 digits then in the _cockpit.ini:

[TotalFuelCounter]
Type=TOTAL_FUEL_QUANTITY_INDICATOR 
CounterNodeFormat=fuel_dig%d
MovementType=ANALOG_COUNTER
ValueUnit=LB
Scale=0.1    <--------    remove this entire line

 

Oh so if it means 10 then the total there is 20 thousand? Didn't notice that, thanks.

Is that a thing specific for TMF or some Tomcat version? Cause the Heatblur i fly in MSFS has the whole 5 digits

[+Cliff7600]

On my end I edited the ini files and the textures to have it look a bit like the actual thing.

For the fuel tank indicator there's no difference between" Left & Back" and "Right and Front", it's the same value. On the real aircraft in depends on fuel management.
There's no internal / external tank values anymore.
But as I edited too the tapes gauges (RPM / TIT / FF) I can do some fuel consumption calculation. On the screenshot : 5k indicated on both fuel flow and fuel tank gauges is 1 hour left (2 x 5000 = 10000 lbs).
All is texture and ini file edits.

For the Machmeter there's nothing to do because it's a 3D model issue. The Machmeter indicator is not made. And when it's there it has to be linked in the hierarchy to the speed indicator to work.
I just added it to the aircraft HUD, by copying the lines from the later version.

Edited January 30, 2024 by Cliff7600

[JamesWilson]

7 hours ago, Cliff7600 said:

On my end I edited the ini files and the textures to have it look a bit like the actual thing.

For the fuel tank indicator there's no difference between" Left & Back" and "Right and Front", it's the same value. On the real aircraft in depends on fuel management.
There's no internal / external tank values anymore.
But as I edited too the tapes gauges (RPM / TIT / FF) I can do some fuel consumption calculation. On the screenshot : 5k indicated on both fuel flow and fuel tank gauges is 1 hour left (2 x 5000 = 10000 lbs).
All is texture and ini file edits.

For the Machmeter there's nothing to do because it's a 3D model issue. The Machmeter indicator is not made. And when it's there it has to be linked in the hierarchy to the speed indicator to work.
I just added it to the aircraft HUD, by copying the lines from the later version.

Oh wow, how did you edit the textures? A bit of a shame there's no external fuel valuie anymore, but having Left & Right, plus deleting the "0.1" shown, and using the whole fuel digits, sounds very great.

So you had external fuel tanks in this screenshot?

If you could explain me how you did that both in texture and ini files would be much appreciated!

[PeacePuma]

The texture could be redone if it were verified that the path of the needle resembles the scale eg at 6 = mach 1.0



 

Edited January 30, 2024 by PeacePuma

[+MigBuster]

7 hours ago, JamesWilson said:

So it's all correct? I play MSFS and there the speed indicator moves both kts and Mach, the latter doesn't in TMF Tomcat.

In Heatblur F-14 for MSFS the Mach needle moves as soon as reached Mach 1, this one stays still and have no idea how fast i'm going.

Not all correct - I have not read it properly.  The IAS looks good but the other dial for Mach is not on there (as said above) and it is supposed to be. More surprised that was left off.

[PeacePuma]

8 hours ago, MigBuster said:

Not all correct - I have not read it properly.  The IAS looks good but the other dial for Mach is not on there (as said above) and it is supposed to be. More surprised that was left off.

For such a popular bird, it was difficult for me to find a photo with this detail of the cockpit... I complement what MigBuster comments
(edit) this tomcat reached mach1.2

Edited January 31, 2024 by PeacePuma

[+Cliff7600]

It's a standard 'speed indicator - Mach meter' gauge.

Here's how it's done. This is from the F-4E cockpit made by Ravenclaw

 

 

The Mach meter part is gratued up to Mach 2.4

--- And this is the speed indicator from the F-14 TMF cockpit :

There's only one part to indicate the Indicated Air Speed. The Mach meter part is missing.

It can be fixed only by reworking the original 3D source file of the F-14 TMF cockpit. As it is an old cockpit (2010) it's probably impossible for various reasons.

[JamesWilson]

20 hours ago, PeacePuma said:

The texture could be redone if it were verified that the path of the needle resembles the scale eg at 6 = mach 1.0



 

So could be done?

[JamesWilson]

16 hours ago, MigBuster said:

Not all correct - I have not read it properly.  The IAS looks good but the other dial for Mach is not on there (as said above) and it is supposed to be. More surprised that was left off.

It's a shame they missed such a crucial and basic feature...

[JamesWilson]

8 hours ago, Cliff7600 said:

It probably impossible for various reasons.

Damn that's a shame, it's such a basic thing to actually see the speed you're going, especially in a plane with no digital speed indicator such as the A and B Tomcats

Edited January 31, 2024 by Wrench
Please don't quote with images still attached, thank you

[PeacePuma]

19 hours ago, JamesWilson said:

Damn that's a shame, it's such a basic thing to actually see the speed you're going, especially in a plane with no digital speed indicator such as the A and B Tomcats

For my part I already understood that it is an indicator composed of 2 in 1, so it is not enough just to change the textures... if you wonder why it was not considered something so basic, I think the explanation is because the model comes from the SF1 and WOX series, iirc these versions did not show the speed in MACH whose change came with the SF2 series. So why bother making an indicator that can't show mach speed due to the limitations of the game engine?

Edited February 1, 2024 by PeacePuma

[JamesWilson]

6 hours ago, PeacePuma said:

For my part I already understood that it is an indicator composed of 2 in 1, so it is not enough just to change the textures... if you wonder why it was not considered something so basic, I think the explanation is because the model comes from the SF1 and WOX series, iirc these versions did not show the speed in MACH whose change came with the SF2 series. So why bother making an indicator that can't show mach speed due to the limitations of the game engine?

They should have updated the SF1 cockpit with SF2 features, such as this one. With WOX series you mean all the "wings overs ..."?

Btw, is there any up to date and better F-14 out there for SF2?

[JamesWilson]

On 31/1/2024 at 10:48 AM, Cliff7600 said:

It's a standard 'speed indicator - Mach meter' gauge.

Here's how it's done. This is from the F-4E cockpit made by Ravenclaw

 

 

The Mach meter part is gratued up to Mach 2.4

--- And this is the speed indicator from the F-14 TMF cockpit :

There's only one part to indicate the Indicated Air Speed. The Mach meter part is missing.

It can be fixed only by reworking the original 3D source file of the F-14 TMF cockpit. As it is an old cockpit (2010) it's probably impossible for various reasons.

Btw, can't we just swap the F-14 speed indicator with the F-4 one? They look the same, so wouldn't be unrealistic, plus we'd have a fully working speed indicator

[+Sundowner]

27 minutes ago, JamesWilson said:

They should have updated the SF1 cockpit with SF2 features, such as this one. With WOX series you mean all the "wings overs ..."?

 

We probably would have but our main man died...................

RIP Ollie, your work is sorely missed, as are the many chats we had.

[PeacePuma]

On 1/2/2024 at 6:57 AM, JamesWilson said:

Btw, can't we just swap the F-14 speed indicator with the F-4 one? They look the same, so wouldn't be unrealistic, plus we'd have a fully working speed indicator

You cannot modify or add elements in the same way you would in real life. Think of the 3d elements in the game with a porcelain object, on which you cannot overlay or paste elements to make modifications. If you want to alter something in the game, you need to redo it or edit the original file, which requires the consent of the creator. Olivier Anguille was the genius behind many of the old models, but he passed away in 2009, leaving unfinished works. Some contributors have rescued and redone some works, but in general the old models are conversions to adapt them to the new engine. In short, if you want to modify elements in the game, you need to create something new if you no longer have the original sources.

Edited February 5, 2024 by PeacePuma

[JamesWilson]

On 1/2/2024 at 12:26 PM, Sundowner said:

We probably would have but our main man died...................

RIP Ollie, your work is sorely missed, as are the many chats we had.

I'm so sorry for the loss, i completely understand

[JamesWilson]

On 5/2/2024 at 6:01 PM, PeacePuma said:

You cannot modify or add elements in the same way you would in real life. Think of the 3d elements in the game with a porcelain object, on which you cannot overlay or paste elements to make modifications. If you want to alter something in the game, you need to redo it or edit the original file, which requires the consent of the creator. Olivier Anguille was the genius behind many of the old models, but he passed away in 2009, leaving unfinished works. Some contributors have rescued and redone some works, but in general the old models are conversions to adapt them to the new engine. In short, if you want to modify elements in the game, you need to create something new if you no longer have the original sources.

Got it, thanks. I won't modify anything then