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Bad News? Don't know if anyone noticed this....

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I was looking at Thirdwire's Facebook page and noticed an answer from TK to someone's question:

 

Hi Christopher, there are not much differences between the various SF2 titles besides the setting (aircraft, map, campaign), the only exception is the North Atlantic, that one has additional naval combat enabled. The SF2 series is 4 years old, but there will be no SF3, so its never too late to get into it! ;)

 

Now we know there's going to be an Exp3 and DLC planes, but does this mean that he's getting out of flight sims, or PC games?

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It's a niche genre, so he's not going to make any money out of it. He needs to change with the market, which is totally understandable. That said, I'd have bought 3 if it wasn't just a revamp of SF2. What other modular, easily moddable combat flight sims are there on the market that are so easy to get into?

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It doesn't surprise me really. Unless he were to totally revamp the series, why have an SF3? He certainly doesn't have the money for a total and complete overhaul. Could he do incremental updates on the SF2 series? Sure, but I very seriously doubt the core will change.

 

My guess (and it's just a guess, mind you), is that the current offerings will soldier on. After all, now they are built and out there, the only thing they need are updates. DLC and EXPs could still be released of course, but again, I doubt the core will change. Additional revenue streams will manifest from the Android and iOS apps, and maybe some other project.

 

FC

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Doesn't surprise me a bit eighter,,and I firmly believe that the only reason the games still have a bit of life to them is primarily due to the efforts of this community.

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Hmmm, don´t know what

i should think about this statement from TK.

Edited by Soulfreak

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Not suprised at all to be honest. I think it was hinted at least once by TK at one point back at TW forums.

 

The SF/SF2 formula has worn off, mainly because of TK's own "just slap it and it will hold" approach to the series.

Of course one can still hope the man will release some avionics DLCs like properly collimated sights / HUDs*; but rationally if it was true he would most propably do that already.

 

TK allways was aiming for his own formulat of "fun" tailoring whole gameplay idea to it

(I should mention to me his idea of fun is kinda 1995ish old, and getting older)

 

*Thirdwire might be not aware (or blindly follow that own "fun" idea) but the floating gunsights are biggest downer for people from flight simulations world trying to get into the series, I know few who gave up trying right after seeing the CCIP going of HUD glass. Right after was followed by something like "meh, arcadish" before I was able to show some interesting stuff

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I guess it's not all bad news. Look at IL-2, it's 6-10 years old and still chugging along, with new mods being made. As long as there are paintschemes, planes, Terrains that the imagination can think up not added in SF2, I still say it's unfinished :p

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Sure but il-2 is completely "on the table", heck their modders are now even into Vietnam war stuff...way past initial possibilities, SF2 however only got more closed...

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I admit I hope that TK will give modders more responsibility (and I think sales would increase if he did), but its sad to see that he goes the opposite way. I can understand he wanting to turn off the Lods for his own reasons, but turning off scrips? What is the point in that?

 

I think TKs main issue with this is that he feels that if we ask for a feature or mode or whatever, he feels it is he who needs to do the content for the new feature when it is not true. My request for the activation of the Submarine Warfare mode is a perfect example. And the blunder with Day Night Scrips - dont get me started on that one.

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IL2 is far superior as far as "simulating stuff" goes so not the best comparision, also as Brain32 mentioned, we're getting slowly locked with every patch

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There's also the possibility that once TK sees no further commercial potential for SF2 and can't/won't update it further or give it a successor he will reopen what was closed.

 

Quite a few developers have taken that road before and TK, despite the recent falling out with the larger community, has been a class act, so it would not be entirely out of character for him to do so.

Edited by Gunrunner

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I'm not sure what that really means. It could mean many things, including that once he "builds out" SF2 he's giving it up entirely...but my guess is he's instead signalling a change of direction.

 

Instead of the next release after the last SF2 title (whatever and whenever that will be) being "SF3", with the fictional desert terrain upgraded, mercenaries, same plane set upgraded, etc, he's looking to make something that wouldn't seem to be "SF3". Now what THAT would be I won't even bother to guess...he's not THAT predictable. It could be something we'll all cheer for, it could be something we all jeer at, but most likely we'll be split between those who like and those who don't (because not every early Beatles fan liked late Beatles' music, and not every late Beatles fan likes the earlier stuff, but some like it all).

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I very seriously doubt the SF engine will be 'open sourced' unless it is outright abandoned. I'd imagine as long as TK continues to stay 'in the biz' as it were, the core of any future projects on the PC will be SF engine based. Otherwise, it means either building a brand new engine or licensing and learning a different engine. I can't see either of those for the PC...but stranger things have happened.

 

I've been refraining from commenting on the 'locks' as it were, but some of it makes perfect sense. The LODs are easy...it is to deter reverse engineering directly from the format. This is different than ripping from the DirectX output, in that errors creep in. Note that mlracing is using the easily accessible SF1 models for his reverse engineering videos (which still look like pre-renders) and not SF2 stuff.

 

And just to be clear, reverse engineering abandoned software to release free upgrades and updates are one thing...doing that to software currently being sold by the developer to make a living is quite another. That is why he is persona non grata here.

 

Now, as far as some of the terrain locks go, that's easy. They were put in place to minimize or eliminate weaknesses in the rendering engine from mods. It is as simple as that. Think about it...what is easier to do from a coding stand point...try to fix ordering issues in the engine...or simply constrain parameters to prevent those issues in the first place.

 

It's simple...even a sandbox has borders. Those borders are simply being defined more clearly to keep mods from showing weaknesses in the engine and having a bunch of noobs flood the forums with "This doesn't work" when using a 3rd party mod. Lord knows there's enough issues with the stock stuff...

 

Now, some of the other stuff that is locked is a bit of a head scratcher because I can't figure out why they would be.

 

However, before anyone gets their hackles up...how many of you work 'in the business' and code core? Not objects, not textures, not terrains, but core files of ANY combat flight simulator? Those who are...I'd like to hear from you.

 

FC

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Hello guys,

 

... I think that SF2NA is a sort of "SF3" game!

 

SF2NA seems to be a good basical evolution for the future in the TK spirit.

 

With TK we only see the future in the very short term... DLCs products could be better.

 

I'm waiting for very much the Exp3!!!

 

Best regards,

 

Coupi.

Edited by Coupi

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We (SF users and modders) want one thing, while TK, as the developer (who has to make a living out of it), wants something else. The more these things overlap one another, the happier we are. This has been the case so far (more or less), so I am grateful to TK for giving us all these things and I will accept if he decides to pursue different goals (whatever they may be). I for one don't have plans to abandon the series (though it is possible that I will stick to a certain patch level in the future without buying anything else in case the series heads into a direction I don't prefer). That's my two cents. :drinks:

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There are quite a few expansion packs he could still do just to upgrade the 5 existing titles potentially and I'm quite interested to see how or if he will develop the new terrain engine which still looks to be at the start of its development.

 

Mobile gaming will probably keep him busy for a while - especially having to check the game still works with each iOS upgrade :)

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I too can't say I'm terribly surprised. But I don't think the basic formula is all that bad. And it's still going to be a very long time until DCS catches up in terms of maps and planes.

 

Hell CFS3 is still chugging along, and it doesn't even have real carriers and different terrain requires a whole seperate install.

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Hell CFS3 is still chugging along, and it doesn't even have real carriers and different terrain requires a whole seperate install.

 

I call that a poor man's IL-2 haha XD

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I call that a poor man's IL-2 haha XD

I STILL enjoy it :smile:

edit:

I STILL enjoy it more than Il2 :smile:

Edited by Stary
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LOL my face too, but there's no sense in discussing different tastes...

 

My adventure with CFS3 was: install----->"Aha! Meh"------>uninstall :lol:

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rotten apples vs stinky oranges :tongue:

 

I'm curious if Thirdwire plan some new "title with planes" after SF2 and SFA, be it pure casual arcade or lite sim

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