Upgrade for ODS...calling modders new and old

[+Wrench]

No, you can't. I've tried! (sad face)

[+yakarov79]

Menrva marvelous new IraqWA terrain should fit.

Although, would be great if new seasonal tileset added.

Edited April 8, 2018 by yakarov79

[+Menrva]

2 hours ago, FRPignon said:

This upgrade has main drawback: Terrain's size. It is too small and most of the coalition bases are out of the map, examples: Al-Dhafra, Prince Sultan, King Faisal, Al Minhad........... I think that it is clear thet we need a new terrain............

Of all bases that you cited, only Prince Sultan is really needed. The others have been used mostly by transport aircraft and heavy bombers. And I added such bases as OffMap ones anyway, to be used for the AI aircraft.

I really “appreciate” that people are trying to diminish my efforts at terrain making. I was expecting a remake of Operation Darius on the 2003+ version of the terrain, but that one is now being made with another terrain. If you people want to work on another terrain for ODS, feel free to do so. What strikes me is that the original ODS terrain was much wrong and inaccurate, and people never cared. I could have placed Prince Sultan AB on a wrong location as in the original, and people would have never noticed.

I spent three years, between RL commitments, into making a “small” terrain full of airbases, lakes, rivers, everything being carefully placed and tiled according to satellite imagery. I even added historical FOBs and Iraqi Strongpoints, thanks to the military documents I gathered. But I guess only a few notice such details. It's a pity.

Alright, rant is over. Over and out.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Menrva

[+yakarov79]

In my opinion :

- IraqWA is in top 3 of all available terrains...

19 minutes ago, Menrva said:

If you people want to work on another terrain for ODS,

 - There is no other terrain that can meet requirements.

- Hope you will not stop working on terrains anyway.

 

22 minutes ago, Menrva said:

What strikes me is that the original ODS terrain was much wrong and inaccurate, and people never cared. I could have placed Prince Sultan AB on a wrong location as in the original, and people would have never noticed.

sad ...but true.

[+Wrench]

welcome to my world

[+Florian]

17 minutes ago, FRPignon said:

As I have some experience modding terrains, I have this:

From what i see, that terrain would also cover the Erhaç air base in turkey. Although they were not involved in combat, but stood ready for the case of an iraqi attack on turkish grounds, the german air force deployed 18 AlphaJet-A from Jagdbombergeschwader 43 (fighter bomber wing 43) and 8 Roland SAM systems during Desert Storm.

Just a thought... 

[+Menrva]

1 hour ago, FRPignon said:

you made a modification on the Lybian terrain a few moths ago, It was me who made the major overhaul upon that terrain back in 2014 and you dind't even mentioned me in the readme. of course, I dind't argue and I didn't say anything because I dind't care about it, but please do not say that others are diminishig you work when you know that this is 100% false.

First of all, I didn't use your rework. I started over from Wrench's original terrain available at the download section. Your "major" rework consisted on adding a few things, and a tileset without proper transition tiles, both things were not used on my rework, so there was no need to credit you for something that's not there.

Second, it was you who failed to credit me for the 250m heightmap I gave you for the EAWEuro terrain remake you were doing.

Seriously, I do not know what's happening with you, and I am saddened that things have taken this route. Feel free to dislike my post. I do not need likes. I can count on the honesty and friendship of those who know me.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Menrva

[+Stratos]

Community, guys, is already divided enough. It's really sad to see this situation here in CA.

[Nyghtfall]

46 minutes ago, FRPignon said:

I've just suggested a new terrain for this campaign and then you just started accusing others of diminishing your work. That's it.

Well,

This is not my discussion and I will not contribute more, but your 'suggestion' sounded a bit harsh to say it nicely...

It's a common source for problems on CA though.

[+Sundowner]

Come on guys calm down, this is an ongoing problem we are all running into nowadays, there's nothing new to do anymore, everything we do is basically an improvement (hopefully) of something that's already been done.

I can see how sometimes a guy can get a little pissed when one of these mods comes about, hell it's happened to me more than a few times and I guess it will again, it can be frustrating when we've spent months & months sorting out something full of bugs and glitches and then someone decides to do things a little differently.

This need not be a replacement for an existing terrain more of an optional version. I personally am not worried about 100% accuracy just playability and having fun.

[+daddyairplanes]

to weigh in (as I started this thread) my general intention is not 100% accuracy. we dont have all the things released or due to game limitations to be 100%.

BUT, as it is i would say it is currently around 55% accurate. no Forrestal class (model needed), the heavy aircraft were almost all in the 2000s colors (mostly fixed by me), there were almost no helos (yakarovs brought us a long way). there are many piecemeal improvements that would tweak ODS. i'm trying to take it from F-4s as Migs (Iron Eagle 2 if you dont get teh reference) to Casa 2.111s and Buchons as Luftwaffe aircraft, with Spitfires as available (Battle of Britain).Also by design and intent, there is a while to go before wrapping this burrito together so we can get as many authentic ingredients together as possible. but substitutions will be made as needed

Wrench, Menrva, FRPignon i appreciate all that all 3 of you have done in creating the virtual worlds for us to fly over. However i will also admit to being one of the ones that appreciates how good the individual sites look without noticing how they are placed in relation to each other. not anyones dad so not gonna say "come on guys stop" but i will ask did anyone PM anyone else before the public drama?

[+Menrva]

12 hours ago, FRPignon said:

Terrain size is 1500 x 1500, 250m height file, same tilset as your mofified Iraq terrain, all the targets you added to your terrain update have already been imported to this one and placed at their correct postions, this terrain only needs small tile tweeks and it would be ready.

I didn't notice on a first read. Basically, you just admitted of having used “my” work (“my” because it's not just mine). I don't remember I gave you permission for doing such a thing. The IraqWA terrain even contains two exclusive 3d models which have been made for me by a fellow modder and friend. You have no authorization to use my work and that of other modders who contributed to it. I didn't sign the Freeware License Agreement here at CombatACE, so you're not allowed to do everything you want with my terrain packages.
Even if you start from scratch now, the cloud of suspicion is too big and should you ever complete such terrain and release it, I can have it removed by the admins on the grounds of theft and plagiarism. You're free to work on it for your own pleasure, but rest assured that you no longer can release it here. You acted in complete disregard of rules. Instead of asking me for permission first, you dared to enter a thread and boast about a WIP that at the moment is basically a copy and paste of my hours, days, months of careful researches. Wrench knows how many times I bothered him asking for permission to rework his stuff. To ask for it was the right thing to do, something you didn't do. Basically, you just shot yourself in the foot before even starting.
I feel ashamed as I have failed to protect my own work and that of my friends who graciously decided to help. In the end, I am the idiot, the one to blame. I have no more words for this thread.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Menrva

[+guuruu]

22 hours ago, yakarov79 said:

Although, would be great if new seasonal tileset added.

Especially winter can be interesting ;-)

[+Sundowner]

And there was me thinking this was a "TEAM" effort.......just add it to the long list of "teasers" that never get released because they never get totally finished.

[+Stratos]

Guys please calm down. Getting mad is not good for any of you! I'm sure everything is a misunderstanding.

[+Sundowner]

You cant call anyone a thief just because summat shares the same locations etc.........just think about skinning, we'd all have to draw the lines, rivets marking etc in different places just to stop us accusing somebody of pinching our work.....just assuming that the whatever was totally accurate in the first place.

If base layouts are correct then there's nowt to stop anyone making their version of it.

The terrain might be yours but ALL the objects etc are almost certainly not.

Just because I've been here since day one dosent mean I cant tell somebody not to release summat I've already done freeware agreement or not. It would be a big task to prove anything in reality.

[+daddyairplanes]

12 hours ago, Sundowner said:

And there was me thinking this was a "TEAM" effort.......just add it to the long list of "teasers" that never get released because they never get totally finished.

well some form of improvement pack will get released. if it can be with a new terrain, it would be awesome. if it just adds in new aircraft, ground objects and skins so be it. as said in the beginning, i wasnt looking to release until january next year, with a cut off for additions of december. i would prefer a team effort, especially of the newer folks just getting started modding or who are considering starting. I figured this might be a good way to get some out there off the bench, the infighting doesnt help that.

[+daddyairplanes]

ok, update for the public at large

had a few projects i was working on when i first had this idea and am wrapping up the last one now. given my specialty is more on skins and particularly historic markings, my next project is BUFFs, by Provisional Bomb Wing and with multiple camos in each skin.

already have done a lot of research into this (90 airframes to choose from across the 4 wings), setting up to start the mod next week.

the PM has been quiet, but it is summer and alot of modding slows during the warm months. I said it would be a slow cooker at the thread beginning, just posting to let you all know I havent forgotten about it (however much i want to drop what im doing and make an OZ coded B-1B right now)

[JosefK]

On 4/8/2018 at 2:58 AM, FRPignon said:

This upgrade has main drawback: Terrain's size. It is too small and most of the coalition bases are out of the map, examples: Al-Dhafra, Prince Sultan, King Faisal, Al Minhad........... I think that it is clear thet we need a new terrain............

Maybe the solution is to make a few "fantasy" mega-bases... instead of trying to make land terrain that will be flown over rarely if ever.  That said, there's been an interesting shooting war in Yemen in recent years, plus a notable US-French presence in Djibouti for counter-terror efforts.  Then there's that whole Operation Restore Hope/Black Hawk Down tragedy plus the piracy from Somalia.  

We could also simulate a good chunk of the Iran-Iraq War and obviously the 2003-2011 OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM and some of the good fight against ISIS.

There you go just from this map.

[JosefK]

On 4/8/2018 at 12:10 PM, FRPignon said:

I

Looking at this map, I love this map!

You can simulate with just this map:

• Iran-Iraq War
• 2003-2011 Iraq War/Operation Iraqi Freedom
• War on ISIS/ISIL
• IDF strikes on terrorists in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon & Syria
• OP Darius

Great map.  Thanks!

Edited July 18, 2018 by Wrench
do NOT quote a reply with the image attached

[+Stratos]

I know some had some issues with 3d work by UMM, but he's posting WIP models from scratch to completion, are you guys planning to use those buildings in the upgrade? Both buildings in Kuwait and Iraq will add a lot.

[+daddyairplanes]

sorry for late reply

Stratos, theres stuff in the works in a group PM right now. not trying to weigh in on the 5 Ws, just tryin to work things w/o drama

progress is slow on this, but is going bit by bit. we'll get there

possibly sooner than the Fitters (just teasin you all Team Sukhoi!)

[RustyKurnass]

Guys,

in the past days I received the Gulf Air War Debrief from World Air Power series ( I search this volume for quite some times ) and there are a couple of map that I think can be useful,one with the Iraqi and the other with Coalition air bases.

I can send the pics but only in PM,copyright issue...

Let me know!

[+Crusader]

Gulf Air War Debrief from World Air Power series

Great book! In my book-stack since many years

[Blackburn32]

I can provide my skinning efforts if required? I can do an accurate ODS Turkey skin pack?