We are all a bunch of sycophants!

[+SkippyBing]

Well just out of boredom I've created a TargetWare account so I can see what he's always getting his panties in a twist about. Sweet Jesus is it a badly designed interface, no I'm not talking about the game I'm talking about finding out where to download the thing from the website. There's a link hidden on a page in the Wiki and the registration details require your full address. Of course they don't actually check it's a real address or more than one character long but still, it's a bit of an imposition.

If I actually get round to playing the game sorry simulator, I'll let you know what it's like....

[+Dave]

Hey I think we should all change our sig pic to CA Stary's.

[+Stratos]

There's a thing I don't get. Why compares TK sims to Targetware? IIRC not a single targetware project was ever released or I'm wrong?

[+Typhoid]

never heard of this toad. obviously my being a relative new-comer here.......

 

what an idiot. If he doesn't like it - don't buy it. Go buy something else. There is a pretty saturated market out there for sims and for some strange reason - this one is hanging in there with a nice community here. That is the only relevant measure of effectiveness that means a rat's @$$.

 

I really, really didn't need that visual picture of what I never imagined could be done with a weed-eater!!

 

 

Edited January 27, 2009 by Typhoid

[+hgbn]

Hey I think we should all change our sig pic to CA Stary's.

 

[Viggen]

I want that sig. Can we all use it?

 

And yeah...stiglr...just, shut up.

Edited January 27, 2009 by JA 37 Viggen

[Mannie]

Stiglr.... wait a minute.

Don't I know him from SimHq forum as well?

Wasn't he trolling there too?

 

Man, this moron doesn't know when to quit, does he?

 

Maybe a EEL up his butt can calm him down.

[Viper6]

WOW! I just read all the posts and How Childish can one Male be? He has some issues so here is a tissue! I would like to see him try to accomplish a 3rd of the things TK has done. I've tried The Falcon series way back when my brain cells still worked and there is a big curve to it some times you just don't want all that techo stuff it

is always good to have a choice. In any case we roll on! Better together than with him that stucklr kid whinner.

[+Dave]

For the record, I was kidding about the leader thing. Don't want people to think I was presuming that at all. Or appoiting myself that. It was a joke.

 

 

Besides.....C5 is our leader....

 

 

[Caesar]

He's bitching about realism, yet there's a few things I have yet to see modeled in other sims that are in the TW series:

 

1.) Departure from controlled flight THAT IS RECOVERABLE - yeah, it took a while, but I can now flat-spin and or just stall my aircraft and cause departures that, following certain guidelines, can be recovered from. Sometimes, they are irrecoverable. Seems pretty realistic to me.

 

2.) Gun jams - I haven't experienced this in any other combat sim, save for WWII and earlier, and yet, problems occur even in the most modern gun systems to include the M61.

 

3.) Cobra-able Flanker without the hit of a key - this one's self-explanatory

 

4.) Missiles that are not t3h uber-leet hax and which actually require an envelope to shoot in. AIM-9B/C/D/E/G/H/J/P especially, and their Eastern equivalents.

 

5.) Missiles that simply fail.

 

6.) And where the hell did he get his info on flight models? I'm certain he has flown all these a/c before...right? Probably not.

 

7.) Airframe over-stress causing breakage. - I'm sorry, but the Bug can't take 24G without something flying off...oh wait, in WoX, things do!

 

This isn't even nearly the whole shabang, just some stuff I noticed that is either unique to TW, or which I don't find common in "sims" elsewhere. It behooves Stiglr to come to the realization that his idea of accurate likely isn't even accurate at all, more like fanboi accurate. S*it, I'm an arm-chair pilot, I don't really know how these a/c actually handle; I have charts, books, and real pilots to talk to to tell me that info, but I'm not about to say WoX or LOMAC or whatever is inaccurate just because you don't need to know how to turn on the engines of an F-16, or how to operate the AN/AWG-9 in a Tomcat, then apply it to every other part of the game (well, if the radar is simplified, then the handling must be arcade-like).

 

What an idiot.

[+suhsjake]

[+column5]

Besides.....C5 is our leader....

 

And I demand a tribute of beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[Jarhead1]

:drinks_drunk:

[Viggen]

Besides.....C5 is our leader....

 

[macelena]

And I demand a tribute of beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

 

There are two opposites in the universe, beer & still-girl pee

[+SkippyBing]

Targetware - Well I spent an hour playing with it and couldn't get an aircraft off the ground, the ailerons and elevators wouldn't respond to my joystick (which the sim recognised and had assigned to those controls) or the keyboard, so not cutting edge realism unless there's a control lock button I couldn't find and that's just anal.

Instrument in one of the aircraft didn't actually do anything they were just bitmaps, which is less useful than a stand-in cockpit in my book*.

You can taxi on the water which doesn't scream realism to me and the rest of it just reeks of beta project.

I'm not slamming it at this stage but so far I really can't see what it's got over the TW series, maybe the 'fanboi who's name we dare not speak' is just jealous that his favourite toy hasn't been adopted with the fervour of ours.

 

*My book may eventually be available if I get around to writing it, I'll try and remember to include that.

Edited January 27, 2009 by SkippyBing

[+column5]

There are two opposites in the universe, beer & still-girl pee

 

I now demand that a golden statue of me be erected in your capitol. Three times a day virgin girls will pour freshly brewed beer upon the statue, and polish it with their boobies. So let it be written, so let it be done.

[MetalMania]

Hail Hail leader of the Sycophants! Hmm, that might make a good band name! Someone should come up with a set of skins for "Sycophant Squadron", for something like the Mirage Factory F-15A. You know, because it sucks and is nothing like the real thing and has a cockpit from a '56 Chevy instead of an F-15.

 

I'm pretty new around here but I'll weigh in just the same. Is it such a crime to enjoy a sim (yes, it's a sim even if it is (gasp) 'lite') that doesn't require months of study and memorizing 4 functions per key for every single key on the keyboard? I have never heard of TargetWare. I'll be honest, I hadn't heard of the TW series until a couple of years ago I came across an "evolution of strike fighters" article over at SimHQ. My first thought at seeing the screenshots was "wow - the planes looke awesome." No, eye candy isn't everything - but as in real life it gets your attention. That article got my interest, and I picked up SFP1 at Circuit City for $5. It's easily the most bang for the buck I have ever gotten out of any piece of software for any platform in my life (except maybe FS2004), and I have only played the original campaign and Burning Sands '83 (3 times), plus the Battle of Britain mod. I'm planning on trying the Korean Air War mod, I have WOE but haven't even gotten to it yet, and will probably pick up both First Eagles and WOI.

 

I have Falcon 4:Allied Force. I was reading through the manual (all 700+ pages), taking notes, doing training missions. That kind of sim does appeal to me. I want to "do it right". I want to experience the campaign everyone raves about. I do not in reality have that kind of time. Maybe one day I will go back to it, but to be honest I'm probably gonna have to scale back the realism (I know, blasphemy!). The reality is with a job, wife, 2 kids and a dog, home to maintain, etc. at best I will only get maybe a few hours a week to "play". I don't remember how to turn on the radar in F4AF anymore. After being away from SF for several months, I fired it up and in minutes was trading shots in a furball. I got killed for losing my SA and target fixation (and forgetting it's stupid to get into a turn fight with a Mig-17 in an F-4). So the AI isn't perfect, but it's good enough to kill you when you go dumb. I have no idea what a real Phantom feels like to fly, but I know it turns like a pig and works best with boom and zoom tactics - which is what works in the game. AA/AG/boresight modes and "click to bracket next target" is just fine for me. Isn't that basically how it works in real life, just with a little less buttonology in between? I still suck at putting bombs on target. I mean no offense to F4 players. I applaud your persistence and dedication to a fine product, and perhaps one day will drink from its deep well. But today, I just can't make the commitment.

 

Anyway, to cut my runaway train of a post short (sorry, it's what I do apparently) - and it's no news to anyone here but maybe for someone who might read this and is thinking about checking out any title in the Third Wire series - I've come to realize that this sim is (almost) perfect for my needs right now. It looks good (and sometimes great), it is accessible, IT IS FUN. I don't know if a given plane has its optimum corner speed modelled correctly, but different planes DO generally seem to display their strengths and weaknesses as you would expect. Some of the AI are "dumb as a box of rocks", and others will swat you out of the sky before you know they're there. Not every fighter pilot that ever lived was an ace either. There are vast reserves of mods and enhancements. The community behind it is great, and this guy Stiglr is just blatantly wrong when he slams the quality of their work. You can go pretty deep with the series if you want to. And if you are time limited for simming like me, I can't think of any that are better at getting you into the air and not stuck in a manual.

[jtin]

The one thing that really shines in this sim is the modability... as a couple people have brought up before, TK is only one man, making a whole line of games, but all the modders here and elsewhere have truly made this a sim that has something for (almost) everyone...

 

I'd bet if Stiglr ever had the chance to fly, he'd take the bird up for a couple loops and come right back down, screaming at the plane owner that they hadn't built enough realism into it.

[+Stary]

Hail Hail leader of the Sycophants! Hmm, that might make a good band name! Someone should come up with a set of skins for "Sycophant Squadron", for something like the Mirage Factory F-15A. You know, because it sucks and is nothing like the real thing and has a cockpit from a '56 Chevy instead of an F-15.

 

I'm pretty new around here but I'll weigh in just the same. Is it such a crime to enjoy a sim (yes, it's a sim even if it is (gasp) 'lite') that doesn't require months of study and memorizing 4 functions per key for every single key on the keyboard? I have never heard of TargetWare. I'll be honest, I hadn't heard of the TW series until a couple of years ago I came across an "evolution of strike fighters" article over at SimHQ. My first thought at seeing the screenshots was "wow - the planes looke awesome." No, eye candy isn't everything - but as in real life it gets your attention. That article got my interest, and I picked up SFP1 at Circuit City for $5. It's easily the most bang for the buck I have ever gotten out of any piece of software for any platform in my life (except maybe FS2004), and I have only played the original campaign and Burning Sands '83 (3 times), plus the Battle of Britain mod. I'm planning on trying the Korean Air War mod, I have WOE but haven't even gotten to it yet, and will probably pick up both First Eagles and WOI.

 

I have Falcon 4:Allied Force. I was reading through the manual (all 700+ pages), taking notes, doing training missions. That kind of sim does appeal to me. I want to "do it right". I want to experience the campaign everyone raves about. I do not in reality have that kind of time. Maybe one day I will go back to it, but to be honest I'm probably gonna have to scale back the realism (I know, blasphemy!). The reality is with a job, wife, 2 kids and a dog, home to maintain, etc. at best I will only get maybe a few hours a week to "play". I don't remember how to turn on the radar in F4AF anymore. After being away from SF for several months, I fired it up and in minutes was trading shots in a furball. I got killed for losing my SA and target fixation (and forgetting it's stupid to get into a turn fight with a Mig-17 in an F-4). So the AI isn't perfect, but it's good enough to kill you when you go dumb. I have no idea what a real Phantom feels like to fly, but I know it turns like a pig and works best with boom and zoom tactics - which is what works in the game. AA/AG/boresight modes and "click to bracket next target" is just fine for me. Isn't that basically how it works in real life, just with a little less buttonology in between? I still suck at putting bombs on target. I mean no offense to F4 players. I applaud your persistence and dedication to a fine product, and perhaps one day will drink from its deep well. But today, I just can't make the commitment.

 

Anyway, to cut my runaway train of a post short (sorry, it's what I do apparently) - and it's no news to anyone here but maybe for someone who might read this and is thinking about checking out any title in the Third Wire series - I've come to realize that this sim is (almost) perfect for my needs right now. It looks good (and sometimes great), it is accessible, IT IS FUN. I don't know if a given plane has its optimum corner speed modelled correctly, but different planes DO generally seem to display their strengths and weaknesses as you would expect. Some of the AI are "dumb as a box of rocks", and others will swat you out of the sky before you know they're there. Not every fighter pilot that ever lived was an ace either. There are vast reserves of mods and enhancements. The community behind it is great, and this guy Stiglr is just blatantly wrong when he slams the quality of their work. You can go pretty deep with the series if you want to. And if you are time limited for simming like me, I can't think of any that are better at getting you into the air and not stuck in a manual.

 

+1

[Jarhead1]

The one thing that really shines in this sim is the modability... as a couple people have brought up before, TK is only one man, making a whole line of games, but all the modders here and elsewhere have truly made this a sim that has something for (almost) everyone...

 

I'd bet if Stiglr ever had the chance to fly, he'd take the bird up for a couple loops and come right back down, screaming at the plane owner that they hadn't built enough realism into it.

 

ROTFLMFAO

[Slartibartfast]

OOOOOOOOO I could crush a grape....

 

seriously though there is more work done on Thirdwire Series in an afternoon than on Falcon in a decade...

 

and the exchange of infomation from what I have read on here is amazing...

 

I know I dont post anything but appreciate the time and effort that is done in here... A big thanks to you all.... never did get the hang of Falcon and I once got a joyride in one!!!!

[+FastCargo]

Sigh...my observations:

 

1) Any line you draw between reality and arcade in a sim is arbitrary at best. Period. There are multi million dollar simulators out there for professional and military pilots. The cost of operation per HOUR is more than most people spend on a top of the line PC! Yet, with all this money and technology, what do you think most folks who really operate the aircraft say about the simulator?

 

"It just fly quite the same." or "It just doesn't feel right." or "The aircraft behaves differently in this particular capability."

 

So, seriously, if major aviation companies and governments can't get this right...what makes you think a company (any company) can get it right for far less budget on far less capable machinery.

 

2) Ever wonder why there are very few (in percentage) real world pilots who fly simulators for fun? Because a lot of times, flying is WORK! That's right, sometimes it's a job! Who wants to relive going to work on their off time? On the flip side, for when flying is fun...a simulator is a pale imitation at best...even on those multi million dollar machines other people pay for. Especially on a home PC, which is like driving using a soda straw for a window, and a calculator for steering. So, if a true hardcore flier (ie someone who does it for real is probably as hardcore as it gets) doesn't bitch about the 'realism' aspects...what makes you think a non fliers opinion about what a sim should have is any more relevant? And to be clear, I'm not putting down folks who don't or can't fly for real, far from it. Y'alls enthusiasm for flying is what helps keep me motivated to sim and hang out. I consider myself lucky that I was in the right place at the right time to be able to fly for a living...and I try to convey the love I have for flying to my friends here everyday, even just a little. Because I remember when I didn't fly, and how much I wanted to.

 

3) Immersion is different for everyone and again, is arbitrary where that line is drawn. We've seen examples here ... Stiglr being an extreme case, but even milder cases such as (and I'm not calling you out guys) the person who recently was Mab G. going on about having a LABS counter, or DH going on about the lack of robust multiplayer. It isn't 'wrong' or 'right' about what's in a sim that matters. What really matters is if you can enjoy it or not personally. There are folks who love F4, or LOMAC, or the TW series. To each his own...what your opinion is about each of them is exactly that...your opinion, and means precisely zero to anyone else.

 

4) Stiglr has simply forgotten the 2 reasons simulators are made. First, and foremost, to make money for the company. Second, to enjoy them. I've always noticed that folks with this sort of obsessive behavior on anything usually don't have anything else to fulfill their lives...and feel inadequate with every little slight in their narrow viewpoint.

 

5) In my opinion, the TW series strikes the balance...the feeling of flight without the tedium of flight.

 

One person's opinion...but hey, what do I know.

 

FC (pilot for 18+ years, flier for 20+ years, simmer for 25+ years)

[pablo10692]

OMG I really think that guy needs medical assistence... Probably he seend some love-letter to TK and he refused, there is no other why to so much anger!

 

Can we just throw him in a pool with some huuge eels?

[Slartibartfast]

OMG I really think that guy needs medical assistence... Probably he seend some love-letter to TK and he refused, there is no other why to so much anger!

 

Can we just throw him in a pool with some huuge eels?

 

Dont forget the Lasercats....