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Why is everybody bugging out from SF series?

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Sorry to be late to this, but i want to know why is everybody changing from SF series to DCS or M$ FS? is it too boring at the end??? i know TK is not in his best moments, but is something it could be overseen this game is still enjoyable and with all the great models we have it could be better, why not send a message to TK? maybe he could get it at the end, i was talking with some people here and it's sad to see this trend, just to let you know...

 

My best wishes to you mates!!!

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i think the only moment TK is getting it is when no more dollars are coming in

 

the way he is locking more and more a way and that the user is becoming a involuntary game tester with every patch did ask for such a reaction from the comunity , so this is not realy a surprise especially with games like DCS around

 

TK had a realy big chance with SF2NA but what he delivert in regards to the terrain is outrageous even the the terrain from SF1 is better

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Basically..

 

-Modders/Veteran Members are Being Shutout by Thirdwire via CATs becoming more and more locked, along with other features and lack of Documentation on the new “Engines”.

 

-Instead of fixing a problem, TW Takes the Previously adjustable Parameter and Hard codes it to minimum Values to workaround the problem.

 

-Modders/Veteran members ask TW a question on the TW boards, Modder Gets Ignored, but someone can ask the same stupid question about Exp3 or DLC Requests that have been asked 200x over already and TK Answers

 

-Modders/Veteran members Reply to a Thread on the TW Board from someone asking for help, we are told off (some times offensively) with the excuse that “they asked TK/TW” TW then pretty much re-posts what we had already said.

 

-Newer Users complaining that their laptops are having problems running the game on Med/High, We tell them to drop it to low, and they argue that they shouldn’t have to and that their $300 Value Laptop meets the minimum specs, TW Bows to them and hardcodes more GFX Intensive things, modders get shut out again.

 

 

 

I can continue to list, but It'll look like I'm Bashing TW, and most of us already have that image already.

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Not everyone, but you have to realize some have been around for a decade and feel that the glacial speed of improvement mixed with the modder-hostile turn TW seems to be taking is taking its toll.

 

At the same time ED is opening it's sim more and more, with some exciting things... many people have reached the point where lite siming seems too restricted and yearn for the era of study sims... before long they'll remember why study sims almost died out (hint: because they're getting boring very very fast when you don't have unlimited free time), but still, they are in need of fresh air and an atmosphere less hostile, or at least less passively aggressive, toward modders (why they'd think ED qualifies is beyond me, but still, it is looking more and more interesting, especially for getting close to offering a real digital battlefield).

 

In the end, TW doesn't care, it reached a point where it has gained enough momentum with non-modders and stock-gamers that losing the modding community is not necessarily a financial disaster in the short term; whether that still holds true on a larger timescale is another matter entirely and I wouldn't bet on it, the masses are fickle, modders less so when they have invested so much in a game.

The real pity is that TK gives the impression that he forgot that without the modding community he probably never would have reached the point where SF2 was financially viable, and that's where the resentment is coming from.

 

Besides, 10 years is already a long time for a mod community, most die out long before that and many reaching the 10 years mark see a massive exodus of 1st to 3rd wave modders, if the community was organised enough, it can go on for quite some time has the most recent modders have enough experience to compensate, otherwise it might simply die off, or suffer a long hiatus before a rebirth once they get back to the point where the old ones were (look at the Total Annihilation community, for years unit making was nearly back to square one and now we're back to very nicely done units on a regular basis, the trouble however, is that it took years to recover from the original exodus, and with a game requiring far less work to produce quality mods).

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Don't panic, FLOGGER, personally I just think everybody needs to " get out of the car and stretch" a little bit. I got A-10C and DCS World just to see what everyone was talking about, and, I don't know, it's still got that " LOMAC" feel; kinda sterile. For me, anyway. Obviously a very limited planeset and very difficult to change something if you think ( or know) it's wrong. For sheer variety, you still can't touch SF2.

 

Edit: Boy, you guys type fast. :biggrin:

Edited by SupGen

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My real problem is that SF2 is out of the realm of games by a simmer for simmers, played by simmers, it's now a game by a simmer, for Joe Six-Pack, mostly played by Joe Six-Pack, and that shapes ThirdWire next moves.

 

Once upon a time the typical SF customers were people like Dave, Fubar and a few tinkerers... now the typical customer is CarlosTex... 12 year-olds with ADHD... these people ruin anything they touch. I loathe them...

Edited by Gunrunner

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I write this mostly because here with the modding community i've made great friends and no matter the reasons TK has, it'll be sad seeing this dying, many people still plays it, i even pretend to get more and more into this modding stuff, i'm just venting mostly my feelings on what i see

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I write this mostly because here with the modding community i've made great friends and no matter the reasons TK has, it'll be sad seeing this dying, many people still plays it, i even pretend to get more and more into this modding stuff, i'm just venting mostly my feelings on what i see

]

 

It is sad, very sad. The main problem, as I see it ... is that TK does not really care what his long term customers want. And when people try to explain to him that this is a problem, he gets offended.

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My real problem is that SF2 is out of the realm of games by a simmer for simmers, played by simmers, it's now a game by a simmer, for Joe Six-Pack, mostly played by Joe Six-Pack, and that shapes ThirdWire next moves.

 

Once upon a time the typical SF customers were people like Dave, Fubar and a few tinkerers... now the typical customer is CarlosTex... 12 year-olds with ADHD... these people ruin anything they touch. I loathe them...

 

I agree, and I think stuff is being locked away so "they" can't touch it. I wasn't around at the beginning, but I've done a lot of reading, old forums, the SF1 KB, etc., and from that I understand the original releases were totally Effed up and that all of the tools we take for granted now (extractors, mission editors) had to be created by the community and that it took a while. I realize the situation is not exactly the same but, from certain things TK's said, I wonder if it's not possible for this community to find ways to acess at least some of the "locked" features. In other words, I wonder if his aim is to make modding more difficult, but perhaps not impossible.

Edited by SupGen

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for me i keep on modding and i think that after some while some people may come back , i like DCS but i like much more modding in SF2 i only wish that TW would reconsider

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I dont bug out.

SF2 is like a scale model collection alife.... no way out :D

Even with SF2: Locked Solid ... I stay! :ninja:

 

~

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My answer is pretty much the same as Ravenclaws.

 

And to be perfectly fair; there is no other game I can think off that allowed me to make what I wanted my entire life in the course of a YEAR.

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Can't say I noticed massive bugging out really, we had summer, some have exams, real life obligations, other games(not always flight sims), etc. etc...

Not that I like the "Wings over keys" approach mind you...

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For me it was as has been said... I need to get out and stretch my legs a bit I am not a modder but I have played this game since it came out back in wayback when... and I hate having to reinstall everytime we run a patch. Also it is like a model collection and so far its the only one I can play which has my favourite jet the A-4 Skyhawk... and also RL at present is getting in the way for the next couple of months and then 6 weeks off work with a knee operation should get me back into the swing again... Also I do see a trend as some people drop in and out and some others just keep on doing what they are doing... but for some I think its the way TK has how do I word it, ostracised, them for asking about not locking the cat files etc... and also aiming for the 12 year old ADHD brat that needs to drop his iphone etc and play outside for awhile and find out that ADHD is an illness attached to anyone who cannot keep their mind on one thing... which leads to a wrecking ball approach granted there are those out there like that and want it now and are getting it now and then there are people who have a decade in this game and seem to be getting kicked in the teeth... but thats my opinion and keep on getting it... after awhile it gets damn annoying...

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I agree, and I think stuff is being locked away so "they" can't touch it. I wasn't around at the beginning, but I've done a lot of reading, old forums, the SF1 KB, etc., and from that I understand the original releases were totally Effed up and that all of the tools we take for granted now (extractors, mission editors) had to be created by the community and that it took a while. I realize the situation is not exactly the same but, from certain things TK's said, I wonder if it's not possible for this community to find ways to acess at least some of the "locked" features. In other words, I wonder if his aim is to make modding more difficult, but perhaps not impossible.

 

According to TW the Cats are locked because of the Piracy of his 3d Models and IP, which i understand.

 

however, there is no real need to lock out the .fx files and LOD terrain files.

 

Back in the WM Release and Retail Release, we figured everything out by analyzing TWs INIs and stuff, and got answers from TK himself.

 

Fast Forward to 2012, we dont get answers from TK, and we cant analyze the new stuff to figure it out because it's locked away.

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my biggest problem is different

 

SFP1/SF2 were allways lite sims, with a formula years-long EAW/Janes' ATF/WW2 Fighters etc suited me best in term of gameplay vs switchology

but we have had great real life experts (hat off men!) who were able to turn it into really believable/realistic build

 

Now with everything going down the Joe Six-pack (as Gunrunner call it) way we are with what patch brings and without the possibility to tweak this and that to bring it for those that want to previous realism/playability level

 

sad as I can't think of any other flightsim around with such a huge base of detailed and accurate planes/cockpits/skins/weaponry

 

And there is he TK, thinking the average Joe Six-pack will be his best customer... heck in the end he is most probably going to code automatic gear/flaps/hook not to confuse the poor Joe :bad:

 

edit:

the piracy excuse is really weak IMO

Edited by Stary
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my biggest problem is different

 

SFP1/SF2 were allways lite sims, with a formula years-long EAW/Janes' ATF/WW2 Fighters etc suited me best in term of gameplay vs switchology

but we have had great real life experts (hat off men!) who were able to turn it into really believable/realistic build

 

Now with everything going down the Joe Six-pack (as Gunrunner call it) way we are with what patch brings and without the possibility to tweak this and that to bring it for those that want to previous realism/playability level

 

sad as I can't think of any other flightsim around with such a huge base of detailed and accurate planes/cockpits/skins/weaponry

 

And there is he TK, thinking the average Joe Six-pack will be his best customer... heck in the end he is most probably going to code automatic gear/flaps/hook not to confuse the poor Joe :bad:

 

edit:

the piracy excuse is really weak IMO

 

I dont have a Six Pack, I have a 2 Liter...

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Hey Crusader, you sound like the French plantation owner in Apocalypse Now Redux, "In Algeria, we lose! At Dien Bien Phu, we lose! Here, we win! Here, we stay!" But, I agree wholeheartedly.

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I'm one of those "few tinkerers" that have been around since day one & from what I can see is that now TK dosent really need the modders to keep his game alive anymore, we, the "tinkerers" have produced countless mods, be it planes, terrains and everything in between to keep the more adventourus folks happy. I used to make skins like crazy not because I thought that they were better than any others, but because it was the only way to get them, now with all these DLC skin thingies the casual simmer only has to hand over a megre amount of cash & a couple of clicks later......bingo! instant skins that look summat like they should do with no mess or fuss.

 

Lomac/flaming cliffs or whatever its called today, FSX etc, been there, done that & I'll probably go there and do it again someday, this flight simming lark is like the seasons.....they just keep coming and going, nothing unusual happening just the same s**t on a different day...

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We're Bugging out because, when the Bath Salt/Spice Zombie Apocalypse Hits Full Force, Strike Fighters 2 Will NOT teach you how to fly an A-10C, or KA-50, or P-51D, etc.

 

If teh Z.A. was to happen, I'd be happily making my way towards the closest Airforce Base w/ A-10Cs and flying off to a remote location.

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Well i wont bug out has long was some one donwload watt ever i put up!

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SF2 is like a scale model collection alife.... no way out :D

 

 

Yep, so true.

Back at the time I got into scale modelling, cause I was really fond of military aircraft (not because of their killing power, but because of the brilliance and ingenuity in each one) and that hobby was a way to get me closer to them - sort of enable me to touch the shape of the machine. Still scale modelling has its limits - you can build one or two configurations of the aircraft and you have to move to the next one and soon you realize because of your own endless curiosity you need a room the size of an exhibition hall to store all your models and you have to stop (or start throwing away, which is painful enough).

And then I came accross TW games and this community and they gave me unlimited options to satisfy my curiosity for military aircraft. You want to see a Phantom with full bombs load - sure, no problem, just start the sim. You want to see it fully A2A loaded - same thing. OK, enough of Phantoms, how about a Fulcrum - no problem, the community has taken care of providing it. One day I realized I spend more time just fiddling with inis and seeing aircraft in game, rather then actually flying a full mission or campaign.

Bottom line for me, as long as TW games remain the only lite-sim game allowing unlimited different aircraft with great quality of models and accurately represented weapons stores, allowing to see and test various combinations and as long as this great community continues to enlrage the variety of mods available for TW games, no way out of it.

 

It all seems very simple - everyone came here and bought TW games for own selfish reasons, to satisfy a need.

Once needs change or the product no longer satisfies the needs - time to look for alternatives and no one can be blamed, neither the buyer, nor the supplier.

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