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I know the golden era of Vietnam passion is behind us, and many prefer post-Vietnam flying these days. But, I’ve been especially motivated by some recent activities. This includes some behind the scenes discussions with veteran modders. And GKABS recent work with the Intruder, has been really great to see. Beyond this, considering the never ending controversary of YAP stuff, multiple tragedies on the WTR Project and a general lapse in Vietnam-era assets…I thought it would be interesting to start a specific thread for those that still find this Vietnam era appealing. And especially any modders that would be willing to potentially collaborate on projects. From there I had some additional ideas to share if there's enough interest. Welcome your thoughts and comments on this topic, thanks.

The Royal Navy in Korea, circa 1950.......

Swambast makes the point I was trying for, but with better words. No matter how it's sliced, it will still contains "unethicly sourced" items. I remember the raging shitstorm when it was being released for WoV. A large number of you don't. DA: no, i'm not in the group. To quote somebody famous "would I want to join a club that has me as a member?"

So, can we have such things in this game? Yes, we can. I saw the method in F/A-18A I downloaded. It essentially creates a fake highlift surface which is activated under given conditions and prevents you from exceeding the given limit. Only in Hornet this fake surface slices down the total lift force - which works, but is not really optimal. Firstly, if you pull really hard and go at high AoA you will already experience the lift force going down - then this limiter kicks in and the situation can quickly turn into accelerated stall. Secondly, I haven't managed to make it work for stock F-16. The solution is to apply pitch downward force instead of slicing the lift. Much simpler and effective. This is the type of limiter I put into MiG-23MLD. If you try to go above 25AoA it kicks you back five or so degrees. MLD didn't have fly-by-wire and had simple limiter, so this is even close to historical behavior. Moreso, MLD is not particularly twitchy plane so it works fine. [AoA_Limiter] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.5 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_ANGLE_OF_ATTACK Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=25.0 Setting[1].RetractValue=24.9 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=10.0 SmoothDeployment=TRUE But if we try this for more twitchy planes - like F-16 - this creates weird pitch wobbling. Not good, so we have to be more precise. This is the limiter for stock F-16A [G_Limiter] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.1 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=8.0 Setting[1].RetractValue=7.99 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE [G_Limiter2] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.05 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=8.5 Setting[1].RetractValue=8.49 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE [G_Limiter3] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.025 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=9.0 Setting[1].RetractValue=8.99 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE [G_Limiter4] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.015 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=9.5 Setting[1].RetractValue=9.49 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE [G_Limiter5] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.5 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=12.0 Setting[1].RetractValue=11.99 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE It has 4 (!) main stages which introduce progressive pitch down moment. In effect, no matter how hard you pull, you will keep 9 - 9.5G in continuous turns and wobbling is minimal. The fifth stage is hard cap to prevent going overboard at hard pulls (stock F-16A can easily get instantaneous 20G, crazy). Limiter takes few seconds to kick in but then does it's job. The template is fit for any plane you wish. The first, simpler method could be used for older no fly-by-wire planes, while multi-stage limiter for the ones that have it. Likewise, you can limit negative AoA and G too. Obviously, the values had to be tailored for different planes. You need to check the deploy/retract values to specify the range when limiter kicks in. Then, you had to adjust the downforce Cmdc value. If plane gets too wobbly, it had to be decreased; if the limit is exceeded, increased. In general, you want to keep the wobble minimal, at 2-3deg AoA or 0.2-0.3G units. Usually, the more twitchy is the plane, the bigger Cmdc should be. The values are by no means final. You can stack more stages if you fancy and play around with different values (ControlRate here is the speed at which downforce is applied and removed, I.E - 10 - instantly, 0.1 - very gradually) This is G limiter for Hornet for example: [G_Limiter] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.05 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=8.0 Setting[1].RetractValue=7.99 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE [G_Limiter2] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.025 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=8.5 Setting[1].RetractValue=8.49 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE [G_Limiter3] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.015 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=9.0 Setting[1].RetractValue=8.99 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE [G_Limiter4] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE Cmdc=-0.010 DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING Setting[1].Angle=45 Setting[1].DeployValue=9.5 Setting[1].RetractValue=9.49 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.5 SmoothDeployment=TRUE This turned out a little bit wobbly, but it keeps Hornet at 7.8-8.2G in continuous turns. Fifth stage is not needed. As you can see, Cmdc values are decreased to reduce wobbling. You may notice that limiter is kicking in at both cases at 8.0G, but Hornet is kept at 8G continuous while F-16A is at 9G. This is the quirk of the method, you had to tailor it for every plane. Attached stock F-16A data file with limiter enabled F-16A_Netz_Data.INI

I know this, although I don't remember posting anything related to airspeed values. The limiter works with G loading (DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_G_LOADING) and Angle of Attack (DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_ANGLE_OF_ATTACK). I don't think it is related. The worst thing you can get is badly controllable plane, although even this is rare. In my install, I fixed the rudder on all aircraft and it works alright. For rudder drag, first you had to make check the ReverseInput= parameter. It reverses the values, for example, CDdc=-0.1 with ReverseInput=TRUE value is the same as CDdc=0.1 with ReverseInput=FALSE. It is usually TRUE in most aircraft but I found one where it was absent (it's Su-57 from Banidos) Then, if you simply want to fix the drag you just make CDdc negative. If you want to enable sideslip drag, you make the total CDdc of rudder at -0.2. This means CDdc=-0.2 for single rudder aircraft and CDdc=-0.1 in each rudder for twins This is useful if you need to drop the speed to avoid overshooting (AI likes to force overshoot) and you can sideslip for speed or altitude during landing. If I come in too fast I just go hard sideslip and bleed energy until I can deploy flaps and enter glideslope normally. Although of course the testing is needed as FM models differ quite a lot across the board.

I knew I got it somewhere in my 'database' although here on early E somewhere '76-78 help here - what do you see 152928 or 152929 vertical stabilizer? while rocket pods were quite common on land-based Marine tadpoles in Vietnam.

Today I ran into the same problem. New PC with SSD & HDD, Win10 installed on SSD. First I did not install the game just copied all the SF2 files and folders from my old PC to the SSD. After starting the game, the init. screen appears, then nothing happens. So far this seems exactly what Agostino described. However, reinstalling the game solved the problem (at least in my case). During the install process I got an error message saying that the system was missing Microsoft Net Framework 3.5 (which is needed for running SF2). With a simple click the system downloaded and installed MS Net Framework, then finished installing the game. All is well now, I can even run the game I originally copied over. Agostino, install Microsoft Net Framework and see what happens. Hope this helps.

My view on Vietnam War is from the other side of iron curtain.

Well, here we get into a fog... If you know which mods are "unethical" or something and can confirm this, point out which ones they are and I'm sure the team won't want to keep them. If something like this was "inherited" and is being used, it is due to pure ignorance, and not due to bad intentions, therefore, I cannot call it "unethical", as there is no intention of cheating anyone, and no one there is nothing to profit from it. I don't know what happened at the time, and if I had been one of those who suffered, I would have been pissed too. But I think it's wrong to point the finger at someone who wasn't involved in this imbroglio, and just wants to do something nice for the SF2 community, with heart and good will, and also doesn't know what happened and wasn't even involved. If these "stolen" mods are present in the current installation and this can be proven, it would be nice to point out which ones they are so that the situation can be resolved. I'm absolutely sure they would do so willingly.

Sorry, I really was not planning to post anything, but holy hell...I mean...holy hell. So much misinformation here, makes my head spin. For example, there are countless items from SF1/YAP ported to the new SF2 version as part of that scope - does that mean now it's all ethical, moral and legal...LOL? There are still plenty of concerns with content in this revamp project (not said lightly and supported by evidence). The project leader is absolutely trying to do the right thing, but he's inherited a hodge podge of illegal and/or unauthorized assets that's still used for the SF2 version. And there remains unethical modders that in my opinion stain the entire efforts undertaken. The leader is caught in the crossfire between progress and doing it ethically; please don't make sweeping claims and facts on this topic as myself and many other veteran modders lived through this time then and now and know the real story – and this portrayal is not it.

had to make some new Loading Screens for the F-4G_85 because of the new textures we use now

In two years of playing this game, on and off, I've focused totally on mud moving, all within the Vietnam War campaigns. I'm not very good (as my constant requests for help in other threads prove!) but it's fair to say I've watched Devin Horner play more full missions than I've played myself. I generally change aircraft, to learn a new one, upon a campaign ending; up to now this has always been due to KIA/POW, and always shot down attacking well defended targets. At the start of this week I decided I'd play my first ever F-4 campaign, Rolling Thunder, 43rd TFS. My first mission was a very long overflight of Thailand and Laos to rendezvous with some B-52s plastering a target in RP1. Red Crown called out contacts but they were, as to be expected, far to the north and didn't bother us. A nice milk run which allowed me to learn flight parameters and cockpit dials for myself. Mission 2 was going to be a strike mission in RP6A, but upon loading in, my HOTAS wasn't recognised. A further attempt (and a restart) and still it didn't work. Luckily I had recently backed up my mod folder so copied over my previous controls.ini and tried again. Briefing this time was for another escort, this time a flight of Thuds from a western Thai base. Shame, I thought, I'm a mud mover at heart, and I was looking forward to bombing a bridge. Anyway, I suited up and headed for the flight line, and this time everything worked. The mission was to RP2, and my flight of 4 F-4 in standard A2A configuration made the rendezvous bang on time after a very long flight from the southern coast. At the IP we started to extend on the bombers (as a Thud driver at heart I was disappointed they were so high and slow), but while I was deciding whether or not to circle back to them the scope started to get busy; a flight of Scooters from Yankee was inbound to the target area, but there was a definite separation with a gaggle left of the nose at 30 miles. With switchology complete for a Sparrow shot, I waited until the IN RANGE light came on and bagged my first Fresco (it worked off the rail!) As our flights merged I realised we were facing two flights, seven bogeys left. My flight was instructed to engage and we got into it. The furball was glorious, and boy, did I put into practice what I'd learned from watching Devin. I chose a Fresco, and went in close, following him as best I could with this pig of a "dogfighter". These bad guys were good, and after two pretty perfect trail shots - and lots of high yo-yos and throttle control - with heaters were defeated with high G turns, I realised I'd have to try something else. My wingman was instructed to pin him and I extended about 5 miles, before setting up another Sparrow for kill number two. Red Crown reported mission complete as my wingman bagged his second shortly after, and I gathered the boys for the long trip home. I called Red Crown one final time for a picture of the battle space, expecting to hear that the remaining MiGs were heading north with their tails between their legs, only to hear that at least one was close. I looked at the maps and saw one turning with a straggler A4, and broke off to engage him, while telling the flight to mop up. I picked kill number three out of the clutter, and sent him home by truck. The A-4 departed back to Yankee and one of my guys got our 6th of the morning. These are my first air-to-air kills in the game, and I was (and am) totally buzzing with the adrenaline. The F-4 is not an easy plane to fly at 6kft, 325 knots, in a turn with a MiG-17 while AA explodes all around, but I managed to come out on top. Wish I had a gun - at one point I could read one of their tail numbers!