Why is everybody bugging out from SF series?

[Spinners 15,966]

Yep, so true.

Back at the time I got into scale modelling, cause I was really fond of military aircraft (not because of their killing power, but because of the brilliance and ingenuity in each one) and that hobby was a way to get me closer to them - sort of enable me to touch the shape of the machine. Still scale modelling has its limits - you can build one or two configurations of the aircraft and you have to move to the next one and soon you realize because of your own endless curiosity you need a room the size of an exhibition hall to store all your models and you have to stop (or start throwing away, which is painful enough).

And then I came accross TW games and this community and they gave me unlimited options to satisfy my curiosity for military aircraft. You want to see a Phantom with full bombs load - sure, no problem, just start the sim. You want to see it fully A2A loaded - same thing. OK, enough of Phantoms, how about a Fulcrum - no problem, the community has taken care of providing it. One day I realized I spend more time just fiddling with inis and seeing aircraft in game, rather then actually flying a full mission or campaign.

Bottom line for me, as long as TW games remain the only lite-sim game allowing unlimited different aircraft with great quality of models and accurately represented weapons stores, allowing to see and test various combinations and as long as this great community continues to enlrage the variety of mods available for TW games, no way out of it.

 

It all seems very simple - everyone came here and bought TW games for own selfish reasons, to satisfy a need.

Once needs change or the product no longer satisfies the needs - time to look for alternatives and no one can be blamed, neither the buyer, nor the supplier.

 

Post of the day.

[ValAstur 1,198]

There are times when I also think: To hell with SF2 and so on. With every patch released, less possibilities to to play around with planes, testing things...

 

The only thing that keeps me alive in this game is the enormous amount of possibilities SF2 offers concerning what-if construction.

While real life birds only want the most realistic representation in the game, what-if leaves your fantasy to create whatever combinations of planes/air forces with even more skins.

 

When what-if stops being interesting and/or demanded, I'll stop hanging around.

[+Dave 2,318]

Im not bugging out but I am doing the DCS/FC3 thing. IMHO 10 years is enough for me. I need something else and the DCS/FC3 is perfect for me. I will always have SF2 on the table but the whole lets lock out all this crap because of piracy is weak.

[Derk 265]

Hate to (probably) disappoint you all, but I didn't even make the transition to 2nd gen. Do not remember exactly when I bought the game, must have been in 2003 or so, and I wanted it because it contained the F 104G and I still love it. SF2 to me looks more and more like a can of worms, still in SF1 an almost unlimited amount to fiddle, tweak, modify, research on planes, etc.. In other words I still find it fascinating. It is a bit like an older car, where you know what's going on deep inside and how to handle it. Still finding out new things, still being surprised by something new, like it's a living thing. And it has deepened my knowledge of aircraft & aviation. Guess I'll stick to it for the moment and a long time to come..... And,ha, ha, TK can't do a thing about it, in no way he's going to spoil anything.........

Edited September 3, 2012 by Derk

[+Jimbib 677]

The likes of MSFS can stay exactly exactly where they are as far as I'm concerned... on the shelves in the shop. I have zero interest in moving to any other sim/game which is based on look up tables. It would have to at least be working on blade element theory, I stick with the SF2 series because they're enjoyable and fun to play and I still get to skin and model to my heart's content.

[+Stary 2,426]

Good for you Derk

 

as for SF2 guys, yes, we're a bit more and more dependant on what TK decides not to lock next

 

@Dave: Understand you perfectly... Sometimes it's good to switch in the right moment

 

As for the series... just tried few years old "Heroes Over Europe", was on magazine DVD... man I don't want SF series to end up like that... with slo-mo ace shots, zero flight realism and crappy voice overs

 

(ohh, we already have crappy voice-overs)

[+EricJ 3,935]

I'll hold onto the "get out of the car and stretch" mentality, and quite honestly has been my mentality with games. 2001... I was with Flanker 2.5 for a bit, then moved on to TW sims, LOMAC, then... I think I was at VBS1 still...

Then I did some stuff for DCS: Black Shark, never got into that one. Moved back to SF1 then 2 during Afghanistan, worked on some consulting for DCS: A-10C, then stayed with SF2 up until now where I'm mainly doing some minor stuff with FSX and that's about where I stand... I enjoy SF2 but as said, sometimes you need to stop and see what else is out there before coming back.

[MigBuster 2,861]

Reality is most are going no where - there is nothing out there with the variety and quick fix SF2 gives you - and a lot of the add on's still work (for the time being).

 

Had to laugh at the people moaning at FC3 - 10 years old rehash with a new F-15C model and pit (non clickable) they say - sound familiar? But all the 3D pits and different types of Jets and terrains are what SF2 has over everything else - and I can still enjoy flying them.

 

For me the latest patches are screwed up by whatever avionics60 is doing - so have left most of my installs at Nov11 and apr12. - and they will continue to live alongside Falcon 4 BMS and DCS A-10C - but whether TW still get my support depends really - if he wants to lock away the terrain files then he'd better come up with some good terrains to replace the **** that comes with the game.

[+russouk2004 6,951]

If it does go tits up...we have enough modders here to make our own game out of what we have...as we have in the past,we knowq the sim isnt perfect,and in the main,we modders etc have "fixed" most things ourselves where we could,so I say in that respect,we can make this go on.Wether tk does or not.

[+SkateZilla 49]

If it does go tits up...we have enough modders here to make our own game out of what we have...as we have in the past,we knowq the sim isnt perfect,and in the main,we modders etc have "fixed" most things ourselves where we could,so I say in that respect,we can make this go on.Wether tk does or not.

 

I'd Use SF1 as a base to maintain MP, tear apart the DLLs, add in Specular and Bump Maps, create better shaders... I mean, DCS is still DX9 for cripes sake and looks tons better.

[+EricJ 3,935]

Now that you mention it, one of the main reasons for "bugging out" is that SF2 is just nothing new with it. No SDK for anything, just dealing with what TK gives us and that's it. Maybe if he'd start doing SDKs or something that allows us to enhance the game (such as what SkateZilla is doing) I'd be more intrested, but the fact of the matter is that right now it's maxed out in my opinion, or at least my point of view.

[+daddyairplanes 8,641]

(ohh, we already have crappy voice-overs)

 

yeah, need some of what that guys on. i have been havin trouble sleepin lately......

WE MISS YOU REDCROWN GIRL!!!!!!!

 

and i agree with Crusader and Svetlin, SF2 has takin up the place of my plastic kit work. and i get to nuke things with em when i'm done. and (so long as i remember to back up) they are much more portable in a move than 72d or 48th scale!

Edited September 4, 2012 by daddyairplanes

[Baldric 42]

Well, I'm one of the newbies to SF series and I'm not a Joe Sixpack :) From what I've seen so far this community, and in particular the modding community, is pretty damn amazing-- and y'all have my respect for that. I've been reading about the discontent and can certainly understand it and the desire to try other systems. I will say that I've probably put more stick time in SF2:E/I/V in the past three weeks than I have in FC2/DCS BS/DCS A10 in the past three months. I've got that 'one more mission...one more' syndrome at the moment and I'm having a blast in the campaigns. There is something visceral about modded SF2 that I like better than the somewhat sterile FC/LOMAC stuff, and when you get one of those missions where the whole front seems embroiled in a sh*tstorm of whiteknuckled flying...well y'all know. I simfly RoF/OFF too and they're both quite different in approach to the same topic and I like 'em both. In the end though, the way I look at it is its apples and oranges, all fruit, just different and all good.

[+NeverEnough 78]

For those of you who feel that "everybobody's bugging out", take a look at the really amazing mods released over the last couple weeks and available in the downloads section right here! Terrains, cockpits, campaigns, makeovers of older classic models (Russouk's beautiful P-47N!), Fast Cargo's lovely Arrow, and more! These mods are not amateurish efforts, but real quality professional level additions to the StrikeFighters world. The level of quality in the mods being released recently is as good as it has ever been, and that trend appears to promise even better things for the future. This is why the Thirdwire sims have held so many of our attention spans far longer than we reasonably expected. TK's "lite sim" has provided many extremely talented individuals with a blank canvas to make some truly amazing contributions.

[+Dels 594]

If it does go tits up...we have enough modders here to make our own game out of what we have...as we have in the past,we knowq the sim isnt perfect,and in the main,we modders etc have "fixed" most things ourselves where we could,so I say in that respect,we can make this go on.Wether tk does or not.

 

I agree, we can decide on a definitive patch level and will be able to work with what we've got. There'll be no more bitching about what we want changed or added because it ain't gonna happen and I'm sure we'll all be happy to live with it.

 

Dels

Edited September 4, 2012 by Dels

[Teras 67]

well , since the "lock away" thing happened and i saw it clearly that TK won't answer our questions and ignore most us then i installed my FALCON 4 BMS i only play SF2 once in a week and thats because the lack of features , in SF2 i can't air-refuel and i can't chose whatever target i want while flaying an air strike mission and also i can't slew my targeting pod , i just press E and the damncommonbuilding targeted by red box and press enter to release the iron

in falcon BMS i feel free doing all these stuff and i feel im playing a game and enjoying my time i can contact tower whenever i want and request landing or asking about wind

falcon 4 is an old game , a really old game and still have better eye candy than SF2 with BMS.32 installed , im really sorry about what SF2 is on now

Edited September 4, 2012 by Teras

[Gr.Viper 131]

Some people are bugging out, some are staying in hoping to regain control, so that the dive won't end it a crash. It's all down to how many wires the gremlins have gnawed on.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I've never gotten to Gen 2 for the simple reason that my E Machines T-3120 could barely handle the Steel Tiger campaign in WOV Gold and WOE with certain mods. I've always been envious of those of you running the new stuff until quite recently. Between reading about all the hassles here in this forum and being away from the sim due to my current job and location, i no longer feel that bad.

 

I'm an average player. Nothing more, nothing less. I've been curious about modding but don't have a jack#%$& clue about how to go about it despite having asked sometime before. I use what mods i think will add a bit more something to what i'm doing. Over the last six years i've had a blast flying whenever i could despite some times when everything seemed to be going wrong. The DiD challenge? To me it's an honor to be the first to have posted an AAR and have been the last to have kept it going. Even now i'm thinking of when i get things together again and posting the results. I have no intention of bugging out. Here i'll stay.

[JediMaster 451]

I'd Use SF1 as a base to maintain MP, tear apart the DLLs, add in Specular and Bump Maps, create better shaders... I mean, DCS is still DX9 for cripes sake and looks tons better.

 

Yeah, that's another one I don't get. It was MONTHS before A-10C's beta release that Wags announced "DX11 (or was it 10?) is being implemented to A-10C/DCS" and IIRC he posted some screenshots. Then just a month before the beta release came the word "Oh, it won't actually make it into A-10C's release, but should come later". It was not made clear whether that meant a patch post-release, or it was being planned for what we now know as DCS World. Yet here's DCSW and STILL nothing beyond DX9. In fact, since A-10's beta release I don't remember a single WORD about DX10/11.

 

If TK can implement DX10 improvements to his engine, why can't ED do it for DCS?

[+malibu43 142]

Not bailing, but definitely "getting out and stretching my legs a bit". And I might get back in a different car for the next part of the journey.

 

I'm just kinda tired of modding (or lately a lot of fixing). The idea of multiplayer in FC2/FC3 that includes all the DCS flyers sounds fun, for now anyway. But my SF2 install isn't going anywhere. I'm just ready for that install to be at a stable point where I don't screw with it anymore. I just want to fly. I don't have the spare time that I did a few years ago.

 

...

 

-Modders/Veteran members ask TW a question on the TW boards, Modder Gets Ignored, but someone can ask the same stupid question about Exp3 or DLC Requests that have been asked 200x over already and TK Answers

 

...

 

I found this to be very true and one of the most annoying things out of everything you listed. And it wasn't always like that.

[+SkateZilla 49]

So here's the game plan, we all come up with new names... and bug TK .. lol…

 

 

Back on Topic:

 

From a End User POV:

I still play SF2 when I have a few (30) minutes to an hour, or basically when I don't have time to run through the A-10s Start up sequence and radio everyone...

I also "play" SF2 when I'm testing stuff,

 

from 2000-2012, I dropped most Arcadish games I played for realistic ones, shooters, racers, and flight sims.

 

So, it's not hating on SF2 Exclusively,

I havent touched a Need for Speed Style Racing game in Ages, and refuse to play some of the arcade shooters.

('cept HALO1.2.3. and soon to be 4, just because of the story line)

 

From a 3d Graphics Artist POV:

Even without a DCS’s License/Help, Their Tools provide more info. It’s easier to build, preview and trouble shoot models in 3ds Max 2011/2012 and being able to view the model In the DCS Engine from within 3ds max using the Model Viewer Plugin. This Tool is also Useful for Skinners too.

(no saving, closing everything, boot game, study model for problems, take screenshots, exit game, open 3ds max back up, open photoshop back up, etc etc.)

 

With Thirdwire Titles, most of the Modding Knowledge Base was assembled by 3rd party guys here; TW hasn’t provided nearly any sort of help for 3rd parties in a while. Don’t get me wrong, they provided TONs of help in the early days and most of those guidelines and tips still apply to SF2, but the lack of details of the new engine features, and the locking away of files that we can use as examples to get a clearer picture on how things work simply hinders 3rd parties.

 

3rd Party Modders have brought new Features/Innovations to the Engine via Time, Edits and creative Thinking, only to have to re-do it or throw it away when the next patch locks out the ability to change that parameter.

 

Ask yourself, would you want to spend hundreds of hours building something without any form of help, examples or guidelines from the developer on how to correctly import it into the engine.

 

I ask a Question about the Engine on EDs Boards and I get a response w/ the Answer to my Question, from Nate, Wags, or another studio that has a license and knows the answer.

 

I ask on TWs boards and all I get is the crickets noise.

 

Even a Simple question like “what’s the max light shader per mesh”, and “if it’s possible to have the mesh name displayed on the debug HUD data block?”.

A Simple Answer to both of those questions would take 1 minute to type, and TW would know the answers without having to dig through DLLs and code as it is their engine.

Instead they repeatedly answer posts from new people that obviously don’t know what a search function is, that ask the same question that’s been asked and answered many times before.

 

So like I said, who would want to develop 3rd party addons for a game when the developer doesn’t wanna help you?

Im pretty sure by now, with all my posted Hate towards the subject, TW prolly sees my posts on their boards and pretty much says “eff you skate’ in their minds.

 

I’m also not the only one that feels this way, obviously.

Edited September 4, 2012 by SkateZilla

[+daddyairplanes 8,641]

hey i'm viewed as a stupid newbie at TW. (off course it's not that far from the truth...) should i start askin the questions to TK?

[Murphy'S 15]

Or time to try to make a join-venture with another kind of modder and make the game go in the wished direction........but trying to go this way is not.......very legal to say the least.

[Slartibartfast 153]

DA oooo thats bad and I would definitely be a newbie in there as I have only posted about 5 times... I am having a cunning plan... I haven't been kicked out of a website for awhile

[+Stary 2,426]

and we bashed mlracing too early... time will come we'll need guys like him